Is TKD turning back the hands of time and starting to incorporate more SD and hands techniques? Will this really become Korean Karate or Hapkido then TKD? If so will we be seeing a new name for this type of TKD?
What once was will be again
- Thread starter terryl965
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Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
There may be a handful of teachers left that still teach TKD with the SD. As you likely know, better than I, TKD with the original SD is not karate and it is not Hapkido. However the seminar I went to with Fumio Demura was close to the TKD I trained many years ago and I believe that was Okinawan Karate.
But as to your question it may become a conglomerant of styles and then become something else all together (see Chuck Norris Chun Kuk Do) Or it may take a handful of dedicated people to work together to get it back to it once was.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #3
This is a great example with Chuck Norris, will this be what would be consider a new name for the Art itself?
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Since Chun Kuk Do is allegedly a combination of Tang Soo Do plus Taekwondo, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Wrestling, Muay Thai and Shotokan I would say Chun Kuk Do might be his flavor of what TKD will become but there are multiple options. Since BJJ seems to be combining with a lot of styles these days it may be what it takes to get TKD back to SD. Could possibly see Sanshou combined with TKD or Okinawan Karate with TKD or to keep it in the same culture Hapkido with TKD and then as one goes along start adapting the Hapkido SD to what TKD is. This of course would need to pair down much of the Hapkido apps otherwise you would just have Hapkido.
However like I said I am pretty sure there are some, like yourself, out there that do know the traditional TKD and if that group could get together you might just get back to the traditional TKD I knew with SD. But it would most certainly not be easy or anywhere near as lucrative as teaching sports TKD. It may be it would need to be something like my old TKD teacher did. Split the class into 2 groups MA and Sport. He allowed all to participate in both or specialize in either.
However like I said I am pretty sure there are some, like yourself, out there that do know the traditional TKD and if that group could get together you might just get back to the traditional TKD I knew with SD. But it would most certainly not be easy or anywhere near as lucrative as teaching sports TKD. It may be it would need to be something like my old TKD teacher did. Split the class into 2 groups MA and Sport. He allowed all to participate in both or specialize in either.
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
TKD, as it was taught BKKW didnt need anything added to it
it still doesnt
once tkd is out of the olympics, olympic style will go away
it still doesnt
once tkd is out of the olympics, olympic style will go away
OP
- Thread Starter
- #6
Yes TF the Olympics have hurt TKD in one since and helped in another, but there is still sport TKD without Olympic style, remember point sparring does not do any justice to the real effect of TKD either.
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
very true, but the trend will turn away from sport and towards real SD once the olympics are gone
Guysdid I miss something? Has the fate of TKD so far as the 2012 Olympics are concerned been decided? I knew it was under review, but didn't think the decision would be made this soon...
OP
- Thread Starter
- #9
No it has not been decided so you have not missed anyhting. We must all remember Olympic TKD is not the only sport side to TKD, we have point sparring with alot of people looking at it as a possible replavement and alot of folks see this as being TKD as well. So the question is will the sport go by in all of TKD or will it become greater than it has over the years.
To me TKD has three main aspects: the self-defense aspect, the sport aspect, and the artistic/philosophical aspect. I see a lot of negativity on these forums directed towards TKD as a sport, sometimes with good reason, but I think there is room in this art for all three areas to flourish.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #11
Let me ask this question then, if the sport is good for TKD why is it hated so much?
Well, I can't answer that with certainty, but it seems to me that people hate on it because there are schools that focus so heavily on only the sport aspect or because some of the techniques that are highly effective in the sport are not effective for self-defense. I think as long as students are made aware of the differences between olympic style sparring and the traditional techniques and self-defense applications then there is nothing wrong with it. If people outside of the art don't understand these distinctions, that doesn't concern me. I can see how it might concern others though.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #13
See I agree but so many school tend to let students believe this type of fighting is effective in the real world. I would love to see more instructor make the difference to there students.
My view is this: it's not so much that sport TKD is bad in itself—but context is everything, and in the overall context of the development of TKD, sport TKD has become identified in much of the TKD world as the whole of TKD. The vital connection between TKD and its utility as a fighting art, giving people significant resources they can learn to use to keep themselves safe, has all but disappeared in much of the TKD world. What those of us who want to see TKD taught as an effective set of self-defense skills object to is that far too much publicity, time, money and attention is devoted to a spectator-sport version of the art with highly artificial rules and scoring conventions, making the existence of the SD side virtually invisible to people who might be interesting in learning the art for that purpose. The result of this neglect is that fewer and fewer people join dojangs to gain SD training skills, setting up a downward spiral.
My own sense is that unless the large international TKD federations rediscover the CQ combat side of the art as a major draw and prominent part of the 'personality' they prjoject for the art, there will be a major schism within TKD which will see the emergence of new, combat-oriented organizations that put primary stress on the brutal effectiveness of TKD (especially in its military application guise), much the way the British Combat Association does for the karate-based arts (including TKD) in the UK. In principle, that might not be inevitable... but at this late stage, I suspect it's what's going to happen.
My own sense is that unless the large international TKD federations rediscover the CQ combat side of the art as a major draw and prominent part of the 'personality' they prjoject for the art, there will be a major schism within TKD which will see the emergence of new, combat-oriented organizations that put primary stress on the brutal effectiveness of TKD (especially in its military application guise), much the way the British Combat Association does for the karate-based arts (including TKD) in the UK. In principle, that might not be inevitable... but at this late stage, I suspect it's what's going to happen.
terrylamar
Blue Belt
This weekend, while attending the International Kukkiwon Poomse Seminar, we were told by the Secretary General of the Kukkiwon that Taekwondo had officially secured it's spot in the 2012 Olympics.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #16
It was always going to be part of the 2012 Olympics, the question is after that. Why would anybody even make a comment on the 2012? How this got turned into Olympic TKD is beyond me. There is sport TKD in point sparring too as you all know.
Deaf Smith
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It's to be called 'Tae Kwon Do Classic', Terry.
Kind of like Coke Classic.
Deaf
Kind of like Coke Classic.
Deaf
BrandonLucas
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I think that the line between Olympic TKD and Sport TKD gets blurred to the point where we all start using the terms as interchangeable terms.
I think that there's a place for sport and SD TKD...but I think that sport TKD has become a little too popular. It seems to have gotten to the point that there are actually dojangs that open that are dedicated to nothing but the sport aspect...which is fine, but it's still labeled and marketed the same as SD TKD is, and that's where many of us, myself included, have an issue with the sport side.
I think that if TKD is taken out of the Olympics, it really will do alot for the sport side of TKD to calm down. It won't put a stop to the sport side...and really, it shouldn't. I don't disagree with there being a sport side. I just think, like exile was saying, that too many people consider TKD to only be a sport....and since it's so popular as a sport, those of us who are involved in the SD aspect find it hard to support the fact that TKD is, in fact, an effective martial art for SD.
What I see happening if TKD is taken out of the Olympics is this:
All of the sport fanatics will lose steam, and the dojangs that are specifically open for sport will be forced to take a second look at what they're teaching. I don't think that the sport aspect will totally disappear, since people still like to compete. But I do think that if people start to realize that TKD isn't all about winning medals and trophies, the SD aspect will come back into the limelight.
I think that there's a place for sport and SD TKD...but I think that sport TKD has become a little too popular. It seems to have gotten to the point that there are actually dojangs that open that are dedicated to nothing but the sport aspect...which is fine, but it's still labeled and marketed the same as SD TKD is, and that's where many of us, myself included, have an issue with the sport side.
I think that if TKD is taken out of the Olympics, it really will do alot for the sport side of TKD to calm down. It won't put a stop to the sport side...and really, it shouldn't. I don't disagree with there being a sport side. I just think, like exile was saying, that too many people consider TKD to only be a sport....and since it's so popular as a sport, those of us who are involved in the SD aspect find it hard to support the fact that TKD is, in fact, an effective martial art for SD.
What I see happening if TKD is taken out of the Olympics is this:
All of the sport fanatics will lose steam, and the dojangs that are specifically open for sport will be forced to take a second look at what they're teaching. I don't think that the sport aspect will totally disappear, since people still like to compete. But I do think that if people start to realize that TKD isn't all about winning medals and trophies, the SD aspect will come back into the limelight.
It will never be Korean karate, if it ever was. It will always be Korean Taekwondo, even if the name changes or the emphasis changes. I think down the road the Olympics aspect will decrease, or simply become its own system.
The traditional aspect may bring back the things that made it great (power, self defense, manners, culture etc.), but it will remain Korean.
The traditional aspect may bring back the things that made it great (power, self defense, manners, culture etc.), but it will remain Korean.
