What MA cliches wind you up?

[ballen0351]

really. Because if I go back and find you have made more false assumptions.

you said there was a third choice. I haven't read a third choice in that quote. Show me where that it.

Plenty of choices actually not just 3. Self defense options are almost endless.
Also plenty of innocent folks have a case end up in front of a jury even when they have committed no crime. We have a grand jury system where we present evidence to a jury and and rhey decide if there should be charges or not. So innocent fully justified people find there actions judged all the time

 

[ballen0351]

I didn't say that. I said 9 out of 10 people I've heard use it misuse it. If you're gonna try to be facetious you'll have to be more intelligent than that. It would be nice if you could just accept that other people have opinions different to your own instead of being so needlessly rude and confrontational though

We have an ignore button if you dislike my posts

 

[ballen0351]

OK, actual use on the street? No.

Use in training halls and seminars? Way too often.

As a response to being called on a blatantly unjustified, illegal, and extreme response in a training setting or discussion? Even more often.

In most cases, it's a bravado phrase. It's used by someone who doesn't understand and isn't willing to accept that there are legal ramifications in a self defense setting. Commonly, it's the guy who's going to start blasting in a situation they don't understand. I tried to search up a few of the threads that it popped up in, but didn't have much luck.

So guys being guys. Or more importantly cops blowing off steam talking smack about stuff they know they would never really do.

 

[drop bear]

It's a shame I'm in time out around here. I'd like to tell you how I really fell but alas I'm not allowed

well we could have discussed this without the grandstanding. That was your choice.

you are the one flipping out. Nobody else.

 

[drop bear]

Plenty of choices actually not just 3. Self defense options are almost endless.
Also plenty of innocent folks have a case end up in front of a jury even when they have committed no crime. We have a grand jury system where we present evidence to a jury and and rhey decide if there should be charges or not. So innocent fully justified people find there actions judged all the time

in the quote not in everything else.

the quote gives you two choices.

 

[ballen0351]

well we could have discussed this without the grandstanding. That was your choice.

you are the one flipping out. Nobody else.

I'm not flipping anything other then the Steelers just scored.

You and you disrespectful shots at Kata and traditional Martial Arts are getting old however

 

[ballen0351]

in the quote not in everything else.

the quote gives you two choices.

Nope. Sorry. I can be judged by 12 and have committed no crimes. You keep saying the choice is loose or commit a crime. That's just not the case.

 

[drop bear]

And going to court as a defendant still sucks. Even if you are innocent.

 

[Reeksta]

I'd like to tell you how I really fell

Straight onto your sword judging by most of your posts on this thread lol

 

[drop bear]

Nope. Sorry. I can be judged by 12 and have committed no crimes. You keep saying the choice is loose or commit a crime. That's just not the case.

you can be carried by six when you are not dead. They just might like to carry you around. But it is a pretty left field interpretation of that quote.

 

[ballen0351]

And going to court as a defendant still sucks. Even if you are innocent.

Youbdint need to go to court as a defendant either. I can take your case to grand jury and you not even know. Your not there and have no idea. I get sealed grand jury indictments all the time. I can also take you self-defense case to a grand jury present it and they can recommend no charges so your judged by 12 and never a defendant. But we're getting a little to in depth now I to the legal system

 

[drop bear]

I'm not flipping anything other then the Steelers just scored.

You and you disrespectful shots at Kata and traditional Martial Arts are getting old however

the blanket "i am right thread closed" statements however never do.

 

[ballen0351]

Straight onto your sword judging by most of your posts on this thread lol

You can't find that ignore button huh? We have a help section too you know to give you a hand. 9 out of 10 people find it useful

 

[ballen0351]

you can be carried by six when you are not dead. They just might like to carry you around. But it is a pretty left field interpretation of that quote.

True. Just like your interpretation that might as well kill them why take the risk

 

[Reeksta]

You can't find that ignore button huh? We have a help section too you know to give you a hand. 9 out of 10 people find it useful

Another zinger there lol

 

[drop bear]

Youbdint need to go to court as a defendant either. I can take your case to grand jury and you not even know. Your not there and have no idea. I get sealed grand jury indictments all the time. I can also take you self-defense case to a grand jury present it and they can recommend no charges so your judged by 12 and never a defendant. But we're getting a little to in depth now I to the legal system

so it is better to be judged by 12 in a sealed grand jury indictments that recommends no charges than be carried around by your friends at a party or something.

 

[ballen0351]

so it is better to be judged by 12 in a sealed grand jury indictments that recommends no charges than be carried around by your friends at a party or something.

Only in the summer

 

[Mephisto]

Lol it is ALWAYS better to go to court then die.

Life in prison/ any time in prison or death? Not good options.

it implies committing a crime rather than loosing a fight. It suggests that winning a fight justifies commiting a crime and it only gives you those two options.

Exactly! It's sn oversimplification that implied only two very grave options, but there are more. Why some can't get this, I do not understand.

Plenty of choices actually not just 3. Self defense options are almost endless.
Also plenty of innocent folks have a case end up in front of a jury even when they have committed no crime. We have a grand jury system where we present evidence to a jury and and rhey decide if there should be charges or not. So innocent fully justified people find there actions judged all the time

Exactly there are more than two options. The quote in question relegates life altering situations to only two options, kill and face a jury or don't and die, there's more than that. If you obey the law court will be of less concern. Will you kill a man and tell the jury "better tried by 12 than carried by 6?" How far do you think that will get you? Better to look at the nuances of the situaton and act appropriately, thinking on your feet is necessary in reality. You can't eliminate all thought by distilling a conflict down to two options. Situations vary considerations must be taken. I don't suggest a person lay down and die rather than lawfully defend their life.

 

[jks9199]

So guys being guys. Or more importantly cops blowing off steam talking smack about stuff they know they would never really do.

Actually, seldom from cops. And when they do, it's usually very qualified in how they reach that statement. At that point, yeah, it's certainly along the lines of "I'm doing what I have to in order to survive; getting tried beats being the guest of honor at a funeral." But I hear too many people saying it while they're trying to justify their plan or idea to use extreme force with little or no justification.

I managed to dig up a few of the instances it came up:
Here
Here
Here

and here's even an instance where I used it....

 

[ballen0351]

Life in prison/ any time in prison or death? Not good options.

Exactly! It's sn oversimplification that implied only two very grave options, but there are more. Why some can't get this, I do not understand.

Exactly there are more than two options. The quote in question relegates life altering situations to only two options, kill and face a jury or don't and die, there's more than that. If you obey the law court will be of less concern. Will you kill a man and tell the jury "better tried by 12 than carried by 6?" How far do you think that will get you? Better to look at the nuances of the situaton and act appropriately, thinking on your feet is necessary in reality. You can't eliminate all thought by distilling a conflict down to two options. Situations vary considerations must be taken. I don't suggest a person lay down and die rather than lawfully defend their life.

Dude its just a quick little saying to prove a point. It losses it's effectiveness of it takes you 45 min to recite it because you cover every possible option known to man. If your not smart enough to realize life or death struggles are more complicated then 9 words well I'm sorry.


PS I know MANY convicted murderers thay have done less than 6 years in prision. So 6 years in prision vs death well not much of a choice. My kids will still be kids in 6 years. In fact I arrested a guy last week that was charged with accessory after the fact for murder in 2002 and did 18 months then convicted of murder in 2004 did 5 years and I arrested him for armed robbery last week. So if it comes down to it I'll risk court