What goes through your head in a street fight?

[O'Malley]

Hey everyone! It's been a while since I last posted here.

I've recently been in situations where I came close to getting in trouble. Last night I was getting out of a nightclub and when a guy asked my friend for cigarettes in a rather aggressive manner, it turned into the classic "shoving each other" scenario between them but it de-escalated thanks to the bouncers nearby. On some occasions, I've been stared down/provoked by groups of guys but so far I've been lucky and have only taken one hit (a sucker punch by a guy who was with 5-6 of his buddies, to which I just said "leave me alone" and walked away). That time I was surprised at how weak the punch felt compared to the mugger's build, it hit me near the temple yet it didn't throw me off balance.

The problem is that whenever things start to look like trouble, I just don't know what to do. I just can't think "ok if the situation goes out of control I'll have to punch this guy". And now I just can't help asking myself "what if I really get into a fight?" How will I react? I think that at some point I'll get angry and hit him/them but I'm afraid that I'll take too much time to set my mind to "go for the kill" and get beaten up by someone I could have handled otherwise. I've done some sparring and I feel like most of the bullies I see in the street are worse than me at fighting but it's not like I'm used to hitting strangers!

I'd like to ask some questions to people who have actually had to defend themselves in a street fight: what went through your head at that moment? How did you manage to bring yourself to act and protect your health? Did you have to train for it or does it just come from instinct? Any tips on how to mentally handle potentially violent situations?

Thanks!

 

[drop bear]

You settle down a bit once it gets physical. A lot of that anxiety is about getting in a fight. Once you are in a fight you are not going to be anxious about getting in one. Then you can get a bit of depression or anger afterwards.

I set a logical line that if they cross I go for them. So I will mostly just guage their threat level decide it is getting dangerous and then go right we may as well be on and then attack them.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Hopefully not my opponent's fist.

 

[Jenna]

@O'Malley What is it that gets you into a situation where you are "stared down/provoked by groups of guys" or sucker punched by one of a group? If it is ok, I would ask what are you getting up to that these situations are the culmination? Are you more unlucky than others that you attract that kind of attention?

 

[Touch Of Death]

I find that trying to remember the lyrics to, "Singing In The Rain", has a very calming effect.

 

[Paul_D]

The problem is that whenever things start to look like trouble, I just don't know what to do.

Very simple, leave.

You have, as many do, confused “fighting” with self defence, they are not the same thing, not even close (for more information listen to the Iain Abernethy’s Podcast The Martial Map).

As for avoiding trouble once you have identified it, I would suggest you purchase a copy of Dead or Alive: The Ultimate Self Protection Handbook, by Geoff Thompson, or if you are in America, The Little Black Book of Violence by Lawrence Kane & Kris Wilder.

These books focus primarily not of “fighting” once you get into trouble, but how to identify the warning signs so you can then avoid trouble in the first place.

Think of it like teaching a child to cross the road. You wouldn’t say to them “OK, if you want to cross just step out into the road, don’t bother looking, don’t bother finding a safe place to cross, just step out and then if a car hits you do this stuntman role I’m going to teach you and you’ll dole over the bonnet (or hood if you’re American) over the roof and land safely behind the car.

Instead you teach children how to avoid getting hit by the car in the first place.

If you familiarise yourself with the rituals of violence you are can spot trouble devolving, and take the necessary action. Dead or Alive for example has an entire section dedicated to dealing with eye contact challengers in pubs (bars). It tells you how to kill the incident dead, straight way, and it won’t develop into “fight” (for want of a better word).

The other skills in these books (Threat Awareness & Evaluation, The Fence, Coppers colour Codes, Target Hardening etc) will give you all you needed to avoid most incidents ever getting to the point where a physical response becomes necessary.

 

[O'Malley]

You settle down a bit once it gets physical. A lot of that anxiety is about getting in a fight. Once you are in a fight you are not going to be anxious about getting in one. Then you can get a bit of depression or anger afterwards.

I set a logical line that if they cross I go for them. So I will mostly just guage their threat level decide it is getting dangerous and then go right we may as well be on and then attack them.

That's more or less what I thought would happen if I ever get in a fight. The "gauging" part is what I'm not able to do as I just get puzzled because I usually don't expect this kind of trouble. My mind goes blank and I continue whatever I'm doing while trying to figure out the situation. It goes like a "Oh is this really an attack? Didn't see it coming. What do I do?" loop.

Hopefully not my opponent's fist.

Hahaha saw that one coming miiiiiiiiiles away!

@O'Malley What is it that gets you into a situation where you are "stared down/provoked by groups of guys" or sucker punched by one of a group? If it is ok, I would ask what are you getting up to that these situations are the culmination? Are you more unlucky than others that you attract that kind of attention?

No problem, feel free to ask. I don't know where you live but here in Belgium I guess that being alone is enough to get you in trouble. A woman filmed herself walking in the streets of Brussels (not in dark alleys, I'm talking about rather busy streets) and men were shouting at her "you wh****! suck my ****! you're just a ***!". And as a man I just have more chances to get physically assaulted by a guy who thinks it's cool to beat people up. I also happen to live in a "dangerous" place and to have studied in risky cities because none of this has ever happened to me when I was abroad. For example, I used to study in a Belgian city near the French border and sometimes there would be some French guys who came to pick up fights and then flee back to their country so that the police would not bother pursuing them.

So when I'm alone and the "meanies" are in a group they stare me down and try to provoke me. It's funny because when they're alone they never even look at me. Last month I was walking home and I encountered two guys who started staring at me from the distance. I tried to ignore them but I caught them looking at each other, then one of them looked at me and said "no" to his friend. Then we walked past each other and I heard one of them loudly say something in arab. Back then I was quite anxious but looking back at it I could have seriously messed up each one of them in a "one-on-one" situation so my guess would be that they thought they were not many enough to prey on me, they never attack if they suspect that the victim might fight back.

The time I got hit, I was like 16 yo and I was going to the bakery with a friend of mine. A kid rode past us on his bike and started to insult us. I didn't take him seriously and ignored him. Then he gathered 5-6 older guys (16-20 yo) and they started throwing things at us from behind. We didn't react. Then I sensed that someone was tapping on my shoulder to call me and as I turned my head he punched me in the eye.

I didn't really register what was going on. I just said "WTF is your problem?". Then I saw that one of them was filming: they were trying to beat me up and record it so that they could show off to their friends. We escaped by locking ourselves up in the bakery. When the police caught them they said that most of them had already been charged with assault.

Another example: a few years ago, I was getting on a train and the guy behind me bumped into me. He caught my arm and said "hey you made me drop my weed motherfucker! Say you're sorry!". I was still trying to process what was happening when my friend just kicked him in the face and the guy fell off the train. But again I didn't do anything and still got in trouble.

I find that trying to remember the lyrics to, "Singing In The Rain", has a very calming effect.

How about the Flintstones theme?

Very simple, leave.

You have, as many do, confused “fighting” with self defence, they are not the same thing, not even close

I do not think I have. So far, I've been able to avoid fighting and I would love to be able to defuse any situation (wouldn't that be the ultimate form of Aïkido?) but I know that at some point I might be compelled to fight.

Think of it like teaching a child to cross the road. You wouldn’t say to them “OK, if you want to cross just step out into the road, don’t bother looking, don’t bother finding a safe place to cross, just step out and then if a car hits you do this stuntman role I’m going to teach you and you’ll dole over the bonnet (or hood if you’re American) over the roof and land safely behind the car.

Instead you teach children how to avoid getting hit by the car in the first place.

If you familiarise yourself with the rituals of violence you are can spot trouble devolving, and take the necessary action. Dead or Alive for example has an entire section dedicated to dealing with eye contact challengers in pubs (bars). It tells you how to kill the incident dead, straight way, and it won’t develop into “fight” (for want of a better word).

The other skills in these books (Threat Awareness & Evaluation, The Fence, Coppers colour Codes, Target Hardening etc) will give you all you needed to avoid most incidents ever getting to the point where a physical response becomes necessary.

I get your point. Yet, as I said, I'm already trying my best to avoid physical confrontation. I certainly would benefit from the strategies found in these books but I'm afraid that there are some times where you can't avoid fighting. I was at the train station and a man was "walking" in crutches not far from me. Some guys came up to him and kicked his crutches, then when he was down they started kicking him. Someone called the security and they fleed away. I don't think the guy in crutches was being uncautious by trying to take the train, he just happened to bump into the wrong people.

To use your analogy, even if you try your best not to cross the road when it's dangerous, there are some cars that will race on the sidewalk to try to run over you.

I hope my original question is clearer now

 

[drop bear]

That's more or less what I thought would happen if I ever get in a fight. The "gauging" part is what I'm not able to do as I just get puzzled because I usually don't expect this kind of trouble. My mind goes blank and I continue whatever I'm doing while trying to figure out the situation. It goes like a "Oh is this really an attack? Didn't see it coming. What do I do?" loop.

Yeah if you keep really still mabye they will go away.

You need to start making yourself a bit safe instead. Creating space getting your hands up that sort of thing.

 

[Jenna]

@O'Malley I understand how you mean about Brussels, though I have been around the town on occasions and sofa surfed in Molenbeek for a time even though I was well warned not to haha.. still I do not have lasting memories of threat in Brussels and had not trouble beyond what I would call drunken boisterousness exactly like those insults you listed of the lady who filmed her self.

And because of our differing experiences it is making me think a deal about your Brussels as it present it self to you.. So I wonder, if it is ok to say - you seem hypervigilant - and which would be exactly expected after having been assaulted previously - does that feel true?? Like a perception of threat when others might not perceive the same and which might then be tempering your demeanour when you are out on your business on the streets? What do you think? Is that plausible at all?? I mean how do you act when you are out and around?

How is your eye contact when you encounter these groups?? I think appropriate eye contact is paramount in avoidance and assertive de-escalation. How would you rate your eye contact with these groups and your own demeanour in that situation?? Like I mean not staring them down, just make eye contact so they know you are there and you know likewise? I think eye contact is key to being assertive and yet not seeming aggressive.. you know about assertiveness over aggressiveness yes?

Sorry if this diverts from your original question.. I hope today is good one for you Jxx

 

[Hanzou]

Very simple, leave.

You have, as many do, confused “fighting” with self defence, they are not the same thing, not even close (for more information listen to the Iain Abernethy’s Podcast The Martial Map).

As for avoiding trouble once you have identified it, I would suggest you purchase a copy of Dead or Alive: The Ultimate Self Protection Handbook, by Geoff Thompson, or if you are in America, The Little Black Book of Violence by Lawrence Kane & Kris Wilder.

These books focus primarily not of “fighting” once you get into trouble, but how to identify the warning signs so you can then avoid trouble in the first place.

Think of it like teaching a child to cross the road. You wouldn’t say to them “OK, if you want to cross just step out into the road, don’t bother looking, don’t bother finding a safe place to cross, just step out and then if a car hits you do this stuntman role I’m going to teach you and you’ll dole over the bonnet (or hood if you’re American) over the roof and land safely behind the car.

Instead you teach children how to avoid getting hit by the car in the first place.

If you familiarise yourself with the rituals of violence you are can spot trouble devolving, and take the necessary action. Dead or Alive for example has an entire section dedicated to dealing with eye contact challengers in pubs (bars). It tells you how to kill the incident dead, straight way, and it won’t develop into “fight” (for want of a better word).

The other skills in these books (Threat Awareness & Evaluation, The Fence, Coppers colour Codes, Target Hardening etc) will give you all you needed to avoid most incidents ever getting to the point where a physical response becomes necessary.

So if we just need to read some books for self defense, I guess we don't need to practice any martial arts to learn how to fight and protect ourselves.

 

[O'Malley]

Yeah if you keep really still mabye they will go away.

You need to start making yourself a bit safe instead. Creating space getting your hands up that sort of thing.

Yep, that makes sense. Wouldn't getting my hands up be seen as a sign of aggression, though?

@O'Malley I understand how you mean about Brussels, though I have been around the town on occasions and sofa surfed in Molenbeek for a time even though I was well warned not to haha.. still I do not have lasting memories of threat in Brussels and had not trouble beyond what I would call drunken boisterousness exactly like those insults you listed of the lady who filmed her self.

I just study and party in Brussels so I don't know much about Molenbeek. I actually live in Charleroi, a city in the south that happens to have the worst reputation among all Belgian cities. I wouldn't describe it as being as dangerous as people like to depict it but it's not safe either. Apart from the cigarettes incident (which happened in Brussels) I've mostly had trouble here in Charleroi. My point here was that if a woman can be called names just because she happens to pass by (and btw the people in the video didn't seem drunk) I'm not surprised that a man can be physically assaulted just because he happens to be there. I don't mind drunk people being a little hotheaded as it's not dangerous. I'm more concerned about guys that think it's fun to beat up people just because they outnumber them. They think they can do whatever they want because the police never catches them and they feel like violence is cool, like they're playing GTA.

And because of our differing experiences it is making me think a deal about your Brussels as it present it self to you.. So I wonder, if it is ok to say - you seem hypervigilant - and which would be exactly expected after having been assaulted previously - does that feel true?? Like a perception of threat when others might not perceive the same and which might then be tempering your demeanour when you are out on your business on the streets? What do you think? Is that plausible at all?? I mean how do you act when you are out and around?

It's a legitimate question, and one I've asked myself a couple of times. It's true that the girls around me don't usually notice dangerous people but the guys definitely do and among them I am one of the most relaxed and carefree. I just mind my own business and that's why I usually get caught unprepared and I need time to figure out what's actually going on. I can be texting a friend while walking in the street just before feeling a hand on my shoulder, looking up and seeing that 5-6 guys are forming a circle around me and getting dangerously close.

How is your eye contact when you encounter these groups?? I think appropriate eye contact is paramount in avoidance and assertive de-escalation. How would you rate your eye contact with these groups and your own demeanour in that situation?? Like I mean not staring them down, just make eye contact so they know you are there and you know likewise? I think eye contact is key to being assertive and yet not seeming aggressive.. you know about assertiveness over aggressiveness yes?

Sorry if this diverts from your original question.. I hope today is good one for you Jxx

I do what I was "taught" to do: I look at them like they're a part of the scenery, show no reaction whatsoever and try not to stare them down while not overtly avoiding eye contact. I also make sure that when I break eye contact I look sideways because when you look down you look like a victim. It usually works but sometimes there's no helping it. When I was 17 I was walking with a friend when a car slowly passed by us. I glanced at the car, it stopped and the inhabitants got out and screamed at us "what'cha looking at? Want me to break your face?!". They looked like they were in their early 30s, instead of getting a job they'd rather pick up fights with kids.

I must have one of those faces hahaha. I take it with philosophy but it still bothers me as I've never hit someone seriously (I did knock a man out once but we were sparring and I didn't mean to). I'm afraid that if things get out of hand my legs could give out or that I could miss the target and get beaten or that I would be too busy trying to understand the situation to properly avoid getting my butt kicked.

Have a nice day too!

 

[drop bear]

Yep, that makes sense. Wouldn't getting my hands up be seen as a sign of aggression, though?

Depends on the over all package you are presenting. You will get the best results if you are doing them a favor avoiding the fight. Not the other way round.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Depends on the over all package you are presenting. You will get the best results if you are doing them a favor avoiding the fight. Not the other way round.

Time to scratch that itch on your neck, ya know?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I'd like to ask some questions to people who have actually had to defend themselves in a street fight: what went through your head at that moment?

When bad guys try to hurt your family members, what go through your head at that moment is you try to hurt those bad guys enough so they won't be able to hurt your family members any more. Sometime it takes violence to stop violence.

avoiding the fight.

You can run if you only need to defense yourself,. You can't run if you need to defense your family members.

 

[drop bear]

Time to scratch that itch on your neck, ya know?

Yeah that sort of thing. The fence. The thinking man. What worked for me was my hands in between their hands and my head. As their hands moved mine did and it forced them to go around which gave me a bit of time.

Now I take that one step further an just try to stay out of the pocket. Outfighting if you do sport,reactionary gap if you do street. But it is the same thing.

It is a bit further than a lot of people think.

 

[hoshin1600]

I would like to point out that the delayed or non existing response is actually very common and natural. It's not somthing we want but it's not just you. Know that it's very common and can be worked on.

 

[Dinkydoo]

"What goes through my mind" depends on the circumstances:

If it's 3am outside a club and I'm feeling a bit drunk/tired, have just been sucker punched randomly by a guy a good foot taller than me, if I'm lucky enough to collect my marbles before they strike again my instinct would be (and has been) to run. Nobody needs to carry on in a situation with that kind of unpredictability and danger when you're not at your sharpest.

On the other hand, I've had a (really shady looking) guy approach me on the street and start chatting to me as if I'd just been with him at a nearby train station, I was a bit confused, and instinctively felt something was "a bit off". Without thinking I took one step backwards with my right foot and turned my lead shoulder slightly as he was talking to me, he looked me up and down, said "sorry mate, wrong person" and left. My girlfriend at the time agreed that it could have been a potential mugging and that he totally disengaged conversation after I'd practically shifted into a fighting stance whilst taking a step away from him - he was in my personal space before that, and I felt uncomfortable.

I'd like to point out that I've had no "self defence" training. I think that frequent training in any martial art will affect how you subconsciously behave in some of these situations.

 

[Buka]

Not really time to think, more like processing information really fast.

But, I do remember one time, a long while ago, thinking "how did I not see this coming?"

 

[drop bear]

I like this video because you can actually see the thought process.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

When someone tries to rob you, what you may have in your mind at that particular moment can be:

- How much money do I have in my pocket?
- How long does it take me to make that much money?
- Can I afford to lose this money?
- Does he have a knife or a gun?
- Do I have a knife or a gun?
- Does he have friends near by?
- If I start this fight, do I have chance to take off afterward?
- Do I have the right shoes to take off?
- How fast and how far can I run?
- Do I know the environment well enough?
- Can I afford never come back to this location for the rest of my life?
- Can I afford to leave this city after this fight?
- Can I use this opportunity to test my MA skill?
- When was the last time that I had used my MA skill successfully?
- Can I rob him after I have won this fight?
- How much money do I think he may have in his pocket?
- ...