What do you think about chest gear for sparring?

[Kenlee25]

I've never trained in it myself, but I know people that do, and was wondering what are the pros/cons?

I was just wondering, but what do you think about the use of chest gear in sparring as apposed to just gloves and headgear? The way I see it, wearing the chest gear will allow you to strike with full power towards your opponent, but at the same time may slow you down or throw you off balance. Just the same, if you learn how to move quickly and with balance in the gear, you should be able to move even faster without it, but it also takes away the impact and urgency of preventing yourself from being struck since, after all, you won't feel it so much. Thus, one's blocking proficiency and ability to take strikes ( at least to the chest ) decreases. Then again, if you are very good, you may never take that many strikes to begin with even without gear.

^as you can see I just keep going back and forth with this, so I would appreciate some thoughts.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Hogu is for kumdo...

 

[ETinCYQX]

I use it, here's my reasoning

1) Safety. I think it's a good idea to have when sparring full contact and my insurance dictates it anyway.

2) It teaches what makes a good strike. So much easier to tell a 13 year old that the nice slap sound is a good strike and a dull tap is not than try and explain the mechanics of striking; so they know what's a good strike and what isn't.

3) 70% of my sparring in class is done to prepare athletes.

 

[Kenlee25]

I feel dumb because I had to look up both Hogu and Kumdo...

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I hate hogus, but I can understand the safety they provide when two people are sparring full contact. Im sure they have prevented me from breaking a rib a few times since Ive been training.

 

[Gnarlie]

Wearing the hogu, you still feel it. Really. Some brands have started to make hogus soft, thin and light so you can move faster and easier in them too, but it means cranking up the pain factor. All hogus are OK once you get used to moving in them.

The major plus points are spreading of the impact (reduced likelyhood of injury), easy visual identification of the target area (when the opponent is spinning for example), and the option of full contact.

The cons are it's challenging to achieve your normal range of motion at first, they are hot and sweaty until you adjust to them, and can also lull you into a false sense of security when you first start using them. You feel indestructible with all that gear on until someone gets a good contact in, then you realise that it's just there to spread the impact and help stop bones breaking. The pain is the pain, with or without the armour.

 

[chinto]

my main problem is that if I hit some one with one on full force I will still injure them. my sensei has some armor that is a curaise. I think its for kendo.. that works for real full on full power.

 

[Gnarlie]

It's not uncommon to double up and wear 2 for the heaviest contact.

 

[MJS]

I've never trained in it myself, but I know people that do, and was wondering what are the pros/cons?

I was just wondering, but what do you think about the use of chest gear in sparring as apposed to just gloves and headgear? The way I see it, wearing the chest gear will allow you to strike with full power towards your opponent, but at the same time may slow you down or throw you off balance. Just the same, if you learn how to move quickly and with balance in the gear, you should be able to move even faster without it, but it also takes away the impact and urgency of preventing yourself from being struck since, after all, you won't feel it so much. Thus, one's blocking proficiency and ability to take strikes ( at least to the chest ) decreases. Then again, if you are very good, you may never take that many strikes to begin with even without gear.

^as you can see I just keep going back and forth with this, so I would appreciate some thoughts.

Well, like any gear, there's cheap stuff, and expensive stuff. A few times when I've sparred, I've worn it. Personally, I wasn't crazy about it. What I had on at the time, was more cumbersome than anything else. As for the full power strikes....I wouldn't say that chest gear is required. If you look at Kyokushin, they're throwing some pretty hard, full contact shots, without gear.

 

[rframe]

I can think of a couple scenarios where chest guards are important.

1. Confidence. Some people are scared to get hit and are not going to perform well in sparring because of it. This can be a confidence builder or crutch until they get more exposure. If it's just light contact sparring they need to get weaned off this of course, but if it's a child or new person then it's better they wear armor for a while and continue with training than if they were to just quit from fear of injury.

2. Protecting lighter bones or injuries. It is not hard to crack a rib with a decent punch or kick. If someone has weaker bones (medical or age-related) they may legitimately be at high risk for injury even during light sparring. Do you just send them home because they're not tough enough? Of course not. Also, if you've already got an injury like a cracked rib, it can take 2-3 months to heal... do you want to quit training for that long? Probably not, but with some chest padding, extra awareness and consideration from training partners, and managing your own exertion level you could continue to train.

For the average adult male with a dozen or so sparring sessions under their belt, doing light-medium contact, I dont think they are a good idea. If you get hit with a good punch/kick in sparring, it should hurt a little or knock the wind out of you (note: hurt is not the same as injury)... that's the motivation for not getting hit. In a real fight/SD-situation if you take a powerful hit, the fight may very well be over and you're now dead. Train seriously. I think it was Lyoto Machida that I heard say something like "My goal is to never get hit... in Samurai times getting hit, even in training, might mean you loose a limb or die... use that same mentality".

Just my opinions.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

We have chest protectors in our dojo for the kids' class for when they spar. I think it's a good idea, both for their confidence, for safety, and also I think it makes the parents happier.

Adults in our dojo can wear it if they like. So far, I have not seen anyone don any. I certainly have no use for it, and I'm a guy who likes safety gear in general. I've tried it on; no way I can move in that thing.

Every tournament I have been to allows it if one wishes to wear it. Some kids do, some adult women do. If they want to wear it, I certainly have no objection.

I'm really not worried about having a rib broken by being hit full force in the part of the chest that a chest protector covers. To the best of my knowledge, it's pretty hard to break a rib with a punch to the front of the chest. Much more likely is a punch to the side breaking a rib, IMHO, and that is not well covered by a chest protector.

Honestly, though; the things I want most to protect in sparring are the things that I feel are at most risk of being injured. I wear the mandatory feet and gloves and mouthguard and cup and helmet. I also choose to wear shin guards and eye protection. I do not feel my chest is in that much danger. I've taken some mighty blows (both kicks and punches) to the front of my chest; it's really not that big of a deal, even if the force is enough to lift me off my feet and knock me back a few feet. It hurt, but it did no real damage to my ribs. I have taken an ichi-knuckle punch to the short ribs on the side that left me gasping in pain and hurting for three weeks afterwards, but I do not think a chest protector would have stopped that from happening. My opponent wearing a foam-dipped glove might have, though (we were sparring in the dojo sans protective gear of any kind).

I'm just not worried about a punch to the chest. Mostly, if I get hit there, it's my fault anyway. And I may be a newbie to martial arts, but I have enough control at this point to not hit someone full-bore with my punches. Sparring is sparring, not about how hard I can hit. I'm a big guy, I hit a ton and I know it. I'm not going to bully smaller people with my power. Control and focus is the name of the game. When I need full power someday, I'll turn the tap and then no chest protector will save the dude. Hell, he could wear a space suit and I'd punch him inside-out.

 

[Cyriacus]

I personally dislike them. Alot. BUT, I appreciate Their uses. Hope that makes sense.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I've never trained in it myself, but I know people that do, and was wondering what are the pros/cons?

I was just wondering, but what do you think about the use of chest gear in sparring as apposed to just gloves and headgear? The way I see it, wearing the chest gear will allow you to strike with full power towards your opponent, but at the same time may slow you down or throw you off balance. Just the same, if you learn how to move quickly and with balance in the gear, you should be able to move even faster without it, but it also takes away the impact and urgency of preventing yourself from being struck since, after all, you won't feel it so much. Thus, one's blocking proficiency and ability to take strikes ( at least to the chest ) decreases. Then again, if you are very good, you may never take that many strikes to begin with even without gear.

^as you can see I just keep going back and forth with this, so I would appreciate some thoughts.

Depends on the art. WTF taekwondo requires it. WTF uses it because the sparring style is full contact and continuous, with the weighting of the rules towards kicking and with the head being a valuable target, necessitating headgear. At high levels, the hogu is also part of the electric scoring system.

I'm pretty sure that ITF sparring utilizes boxing gloves, headgear, and some kind of padded sock for the feet (not sure on the last), but I also don't think that the rules are weighted so much in favor of kicking.

Being a WTF taekwondoist, I can tell you that the gear doesn't (or shouldn't) unbalance you, though you do notice it, as it is impossible not to notice a half to three quarter inch padded chest guard when you spar.

 

[geezer]

I keep a couple chest guards around and find them useful. First of all, in some of our training drills it can be handy to get all padded up and then be the "dummy" for the student. If they are still uneven with their control, it makes being a punching bag a lot more tolerable. Secondly, as someone said before, it can help build confidence for a student who is new to sparring.

Another question, which I think is relevant to this thread, is how you feel about headgear that has a face-mask or grill. In our system when training/sparring, we try to make light physical contact to the face with a vertical fist (which goes right through to the nose with an open face mask). In controlled drills that's not a problem. People learn to control their punches. But when you free it up, if you screw up, you're messed up when you show up at work the next day.

Since in our group we are mostly in our thirties, forties, and fifties with regular jobs and responsibilities, black eyes, split lips, and bloodied or broken noses aren't sported as the "badge of courage" that they might be for an 18 year old. I mean, I totally respect people that go all out and pressure test everything. Props to the full contact fighters and the Dog Brothers (who do use fencing masks at least ... after all they spar with weapons!) But that's not us. So we use headgear that lets you feel the blow but protects the face. How about you guys?

 

[Dirty Dog]

A more serious answer than my first...

I do not personally like, nor do I wear, hogu. Our base requirements are padded hands and feet. A couple people choose to wear headgear, and a couple choose to wear hogu. Our contact ranges from pretty light (kids and lower belts) to pretty damned hard (adults of higher rank). Typically, the lower ranked person will determine how much contact there is, but it's a small enough school that this is usually pretty informal; we know who likes to hit and who likes to tap.

With minimal padding and a partner who likes contact, bruises are certainly possible. More accurately, they're pretty much certain. This is not a bad thing.

I think wearing a hogu will affect your fighting initially, but once you get used to it, then assuming it fits properly it really shouldn't have much impact on your abilities.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I keep a couple chest guards around and find them useful. First of all, in some of our training drills it can be handy to get all padded up and then be the "dummy" for the student. If they are still uneven with their control, it makes being a punching bag a lot more tolerable. Secondly, as someone said before, it can help build confidence for a student who is new to sparring.

Another question, which I think is relevant to this thread, is how you feel about headgear that has a face-mask or grill. In our system when training/sparring, we try to make light physical contact to the face with a vertical fist (which goes right through to the nose with an open face mask). In controlled drills that's not a problem. People learn to control their punches. But when you free it up, if you screw up, you're messed up when you show up at work the next day.

Since in our group we are mostly in our thirties, forties, and fifties with regular jobs and responsibilities, black eyes, split lips, and bloodied or broken noses aren't sported as the "badge of courage" that they might be for an 18 year old. I mean, I totally respect people that go all out and pressure test everything. Props to the full contact fighters and the Dog Brothers (who do use fencing masks at least ... after all they spar with weapons!) But that's not us. So we use headgear that lets you feel the blow but protects the face. How about you guys?

My opinion here mirrors that of hogu. I don't wear headgear, but if it were required by the rules, I would.
We do have one woman (a chodanbo) who has had her nose broken a couple times, and after getting it fixed she's chosen to wear headgear with a mask. That's fine. As I said, I don't wear headgear, but I certainly don't mind if someone else does. She's also one of our few higher belts that prefers light contact, so even with her headgear on, it's a tap tap game when we spar.

I short, whatever gear is required is required. Live with it. If a person chooses to pad up to a higher level, that's fine too.

 

[chrispillertkd]

I'm pretty sure that ITF sparring utilizes boxing gloves, headgear, and some kind of padded sock for the feet (not sure on the last),

Official ITF tournament rules state that mandatory protective equipment consists of groin guards for males (worn inside the dobok), mouth guards, shin guards, and hand and foot protection. These last are the dipped foam variety usually. I've never seen anyone wear "boxing gloves," and am not sure what you mean by a "padded sock." There are some heavier padded hand and foot gear than the normal Macho gloves and foot pads, but they're not boxing gloves.

Head gear is listed as an optional piece of safety equipment (as are breast guards for women and forearm guards). The upcoming ITF WC in Canada will be making use of head gear but that's because of the insurance coverage the organizers got, not because of the ITF's rules.

but I also don't think that the rules are weighted so much in favor of kicking.

Official ITF sparring rules, which have been around since 1972 or so, stipulate the following for scoring:

1 point: hand technique to the mid section or high section, standing kick to the mid section.

2 points: flying hand technique to the high section, standing kick to the high section, flying kick to the mid section.

3 points: flying kick to the high section.

These rules were in effect long before the WTF went to higher score for head kicks (they were still relying solely on rules of superiority back in the 90's when I was doing some WTF training and tournament sparring). If anything, ITF rules are at least as kick-centric as WTF rules (and have had multiple-points awarded for kicks for a much longer time). The difference comes in when opponents close with each other and you get much more hand techniques executed faster, more in combination, and more dynamically than in a WTF match due to the restrictions the WTF places on its fighters.

Pax,

Chris

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

The foam dipped foot cover is what I meant by a sock; couldn't think of the term at the time. I didn't realize that they use the foam dipped hand guards as well. Does ITF allow hand techniques to the head/face?

 

[chrispillertkd]

Does ITF allow hand techniques to the head/face?

Yes. I noted in my above post the various sections of the body that were valid point scoring areas and the scores different techniques would receive for successful attacks. Nearly any hand technique is allowed, not just straight punches, and they can attack both the middle section (trunk) and high section (head).

Pax,

Chris

 

[rframe]

Another question, which I think is relevant to this thread, is how you feel about headgear that has a face-mask or grill...
...So we use headgear that lets you feel the blow but protects the face. How about you guys?

We do not use head gear or face masks. I am still nursing a sore jaw from getting smacked straight-on during kumite three nights ago. It's been a good reminder all week that I have much to learn about timing, blocking, and "not being there" when an attack is launched. Every time I chew my food the past few days it's a reminder that had that been a real fight at full force it could've easily been a knock out blow...and I would be in very serious trouble.

I'm also 33 and work in a professional office environment, which just gives me more motivation to not get hit