What defines a "good" or "bad" technique in your martial art?

[Buka]

Long answer short. Probably a combination of both. If a technique is misunderstood then the person is probably doing it wrong and as a results becomes a bad technique.

Nice to read you again, bro.
Hope you're well.

 

[dvcochran]

@JowGaWolf , I agree with Buka, great to hear from you.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Long answer short. Probably a combination of both. If a technique is misunderstood then the person is probably doing it wrong and as a results becomes a bad technique.

Hey! Good to "see" you on here. Drop me a line and let me know what's going on our your way. I still.owe you a visit.

 

[geezer]

Why isn't a large punch efficient?

I suppose it depends on how you look at efficiency. If you can achieve the same result with a smaller, quicker movement that uses less energy, then that is more efficient. Certainly it´s more economical. Unfortunately, some people confuse the two concepts. For a movement to be efficient, it must not only be economical, but also effective.

Wing Chun strives for economy of motion and efficiency. So from a Wing Chun perspective, the smallest movement that does the job is the ¨best¨. However, if it takes ten small movements to get the job done when one large and heavy punch can finish the fight ...logically the big punch is more efficient.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I suppose it depends on how you look at efficiency. If you can achieve the same result with a smaller, quicker movement that uses less energy, then that is more efficient. Certainly it´s more economical. Unfortunately, some people confuse the two concepts. For a movement to be efficient, it must not only be economical, but also effective.

Wing Chun strives for economy of motion and efficiency. So from a Wing Chun perspective, the smallest movement that does the job is the ¨best¨. However, if it takes ten small movements to get the job done when one large and heavy punch can finish the fight ...logically the big punch is more efficient.

I see a similar failure of reasoning in the "aiki" world.

 

[Flying Crane]

It depends on what you mean by “technique”.

However, when you enter the realm of lengthy choreography in a self-defense scenario and heavy assumptions on what the bad guy will do every step of the way, you are getting into the realm of bad techniques.

 

[jobo]

I suppose it depends on how you look at efficiency. If you can achieve the same result with a smaller, quicker movement that uses less energy, then that is more efficient. Certainly it´s more economical. Unfortunately, some people confuse the two concepts. For a movement to be efficient, it must not only be economical, but also effective.

Wing Chun strives for economy of motion and efficiency. So from a Wing Chun perspective, the smallest movement that does the job is the ¨best¨. However, if it takes ten small movements to get the job done when one large and heavy punch can finish the fight ...logically the big punch is more efficient.

yes that generally the issue I have with , " bad techniques" in my style, some are over complex, to many movements each movement relying on your opponent doing nothing effective in response, increasing the likelihood of failure, and or having a pay off that is not the most damaging outcome,, " so why would I grab his arm to then do another 5 piece move, when the same position means I can hit him with an elbow and knock him over"

good techniques have the most economy of movement and cause the most damage possible from that position

 

[JowGaWolf]

Nice to read you again, bro.
Hope you're well.

Thanks. I look forward to catching up with what everyone else has been up to. Seems like things aren't as wild as it used to be lol.

 

[JowGaWolf]

@JowGaWolf , I agree with Buka, great to hear from you.

A lot of things changed while I was on my "vacation" The biggest other than me personally has been with the Jow Ga kung Fu organization that I was a part of. The entire organization opened up and has changed it's perspective of Kung Fu. It changed from being "hidden away" to PLEASE SHARE. The head of the organization is leading the charge and he has shared some really cool things (from a martial arts perspective).

I have enough to create a small museum now lol. So I'll be sharing the knowledge, the images and the videos. I won't have sparring for a while. I'm still recovering from a back injury. I've injured my back (probably just a re-injury before it healed) 4 times within 6 months. All from gardening. WTF!!.. lol.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Hey! Good to "see" you on here. Drop me a line and let me know what's going on our your way. I still.owe you a visit.

I'm packing up some PTO just for that reason. I'll fill you in as well as get other things back on track and in action.

 

[geezer]

Thanks. I look forward to catching up with what everyone else has been up to. Seems like things aren't as wild as it used to be lol.

Actually the forum in general is trending trending toowards ...the dull end of the spectrum. We could use a little more informed disagreement. So... glad you're back Jow Ga Wolf!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

yes that generally the issue I have with , " bad techniques" in my style, some are over complex, to many movements each movement relying on your opponent doing nothing effective in response, increasing the likelihood of failure, and or having a pay off that is not the most damaging outcome,, " so why would I grab his arm to then do another 5 piece move, when the same position means I can hit him with an elbow and knock him over"

good techniques have the most economy of movement and cause the most damage possible from that position

My opinion is that those long entries are training transitions, so when one thing fails and you are maintaining control to get to something else, you have trained yourself in the kinds of odd transitions that are likely to occur. Basically, you're training for the chaos between techniques by including long transitions in the "technique".

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm packing up some PTO just for that reason. I'll fill you in as well as get other things back on track and in action.

Sweet! Looking forward to it (and to seeing some of that material you have in reserve).

 

[dvcochran]

A lot of things changed while I was on my "vacation" The biggest other than me personally has been with the Jow Ga kung Fu organization that I was a part of. The entire organization opened up and has changed it's perspective of Kung Fu. It changed from being "hidden away" to PLEASE SHARE. The head of the organization is leading the charge and he has shared some really cool things (from a martial arts perspective).

I have enough to create a small museum now lol. So I'll be sharing the knowledge, the images and the videos. I won't have sparring for a while. I'm still recovering from a back injury. I've injured my back (probably just a re-injury before it healed) 4 times within 6 months. All from gardening. WTF!!.. lol.

Good and bad report. I look forward to hearing more about your KF. Sorry to hear about your back.

 

[Danny T]

My opinion is that those long entries are training transitions, so when one thing fails and you are maintaining control to get to something else, you have trained yourself in the kinds of odd transitions that are likely to occur. Basically, you're training for the chaos between techniques by including long transitions in the "technique".

Contingencies and follow ups

 

[jobo]

My opinion is that those long entries are training transitions, so when one thing fails and you are maintaining control to get to something else, you have trained yourself in the kinds of odd transitions that are likely to occur. Basically, you're training for the chaos between techniques by including long transitions in the "technique".

thats a stock answer and is separated from reality, and comes about by not testing against a capable resistant opponent, you haven't got 3 seconds to mess about, if someone has launched an all out attack on you, every second your not doing something effective is a second you've gifted them to hurt you. or you can't maintain control if you never had control in the first place, there's isn't chaos in between techniques there's just choas, most fight I've seen are over in 10 seconds as a contest, if you waisted three seconds of that,, ?

 

[KenpoMaster805]

In technique they are both good or bad dependes on how you used it there are technique that are very useful in the street and there are bad techniques that don't work

Technique are idea nor rules which can change anytime depending on the circumstances

 

[Gerry Seymour]

thats a stock answer and is separated from reality, and comes about by not testing against a capable resistant opponent, you haven't got 3 seconds to mess about, if someone has launched an all out attack on you, every second your not doing something effective is a second you've gifted them to hurt you. or you can't maintain control if you never had control in the first place, there's isn't chaos in between techniques there's just choas, most fight I've seen are over in 10 seconds as a contest, if you waisted three seconds of that,, ?

First off, it's not a "stock answer" - it's my conclusion after much experimenting and thought (and actually not the common answer within NGA). Secondly, your objections actually have little to do with what I said. You seem to be replying to some claim that those long entries are intended to be used the way they are taught, which is not at all what I said. And I know none of them that would take anything like 3 seconds at-speed.

 

[jobo]

First off, it's not a "stock answer" - it's my conclusion after much experimenting and thought (and actually not the common answer within NGA). Secondly, your objections actually have little to do with what I said. You seem to be replying to some claim that those long entries are intended to be used the way they are taught, which is not at all what I said. And I know none of them that would take anything like 3 seconds at-speed.

?? so how long is a LONG entry then,ian entry at speed would seem to be a short entry, would it not ?

my point that you were replying to was that any move that contains more than three moving parts is inviting damage, are you contridicting that ? or have you just gone off on a tangent

 

[Gerry Seymour]

?? so how long is a LONG entry then,ian entry at speed would seem to be a short entry, would it not ?

In a formal technique, an entry can be a few moves. That's not meant (IMO) to suggest that's actually what you'd choose to do in a fight. It's meant to get you to where the technique is available, so you can practice the finish. The rest is training you for transitions.

Or, if you prefer (and some instructors do), the rest is just there to set up the technique, because it's situational and you have to get to that point somehow. In the chaos of a fight, the idea is that you're learning to recognize that point where you can actually deploy the technique, rather than necessarily learning how to get to that point.

my point that you were replying to was that any move that contains more than three moving parts is inviting damage, are you contridicting that ? or have you just gone off on a tangent

Neither. You're responding as if I'm suggesting those long sets of movement are recommendations. My point was actually that they aren't.