What conidtions was TKD made in?

[jobo]

Maybe i do take it too far. I might have put too much emphasis on terrain but i was citing examples from the book. Also i got one wrong, it was farmland, where they had thin singular paths which got muddy hence the need for them to be linear so they didnt slip over and they had no way to flank etc, it was more the combination of elements than one thing.

Some details are overlooked which can result in harm of yourself. You are after all being taught how to fight in your environment not anyone else's. Point examples, kicking when its muddy puts your balance at risk, or maybe you don't have shoes with a good grip for mud if you have shoes at all? So you will adjust to not kick often in a muddy environment. And one for cold weather, insulated clothing provides padding and restricted movement, which means you will get used to having some protection and fighting people with some protection and the same restrictions as yourself. a weapon seems fitting for this condition. One for hot weather, you don't want move as much to prevent sweating and overheating so you will probably want to rely on weapons more and conservative movements, in a desert environment sand can be hard to fight on if you are dismounted so kicks would be restricted and fighting while mounted on a horse of camel will probably fit.

Please tell me if i missed the point, i have a habit of that.



Excuse the language thing, it was a rule i was told but it doesn't mean their arent exceptions and it was more directed at traditional Japanese styles anyway. I have also done minor research but what i can do is limited.




that's for certain, no one is infallible.



back onto the book a killing art, should i get the new edition or old? I dont know the differences between the two and if its significant. (cant edit my old post)

The issue sighT people try and reverse engineer ma, they start off with how it is, then try and find a logical reason why it is that way, and either just jump to conclusions or just make something up,,,, very few places are muddy all year round and don't have other not muddy area s close by,,, designing a ma that's only effective in mud, would be just silly, but yet someone has apparently come to that conclusion and then put it in a book and people then believe it.. There may actually be no logical reason for why something is as it is , other than someone has that preference

 

[skribs]

Many military MA instructors will concede that empty hand MA training in the military is for mental toughness and esprit de corps. For combat they give you stuff like guns and knives. I think it was some US Navy Seal who was asked to comment on the empty hand training and his comment was something to the effect that if you need to engage in empty hand combat things have gone horribly wrong.

Yes, but Murphy's laws of war will suggest that quite often - things will go wrong.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Paraphrasing, but i think i read this in a US marine manual, the combative program seeks to improve your aggressiveness and provide you with a set of lethal and non lethal skills should your primary/secondary weapon system be separated from you. Not every county does a combatives program, usually reserved for special infantry to help their survivability. or at least the ones about killing and maiming without a rifle and bayonet. (i personally have skimmed too many of these, a army one i saw had most of it be about retaining your rifle should you get in hand to hand combat and then your secondary weapons)



You guys knew this was coming, but what is the pattern section of TKD about? Is it just tradition from its Chinese/Japanese roots? What was the reason they kept it around instead of getting rid of it etc. (I think most of you know my view on this subject all ready, but i wont use this thread as a platform for it. )

 

[pdg]

designing a ma that's only effective in mud, would be just silly

Yet entertaining...

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Try living in Scotland.

 

[jobo]

Yet entertaining...

View attachment 21597

Do you think so, I can't imagine dedicating much more than 5 mins of my life to watching two fat girls in mud,

 

[pdg]

Do you think so, I can't imagine dedicating much more than 5 mins of my life to watching two fat girls in mud,

5 minutes eh?

They do a pill for that...

 

[Earl Weiss]

Yes, but Murphy's laws of war will suggest that quite often - things will go wrong.

In the last 100 years how often do you think modern military combat involved a weaponless encounter? Now measure whatever percentage of conflicts you think this involved against time spent training for it.

 

[jobo]

In the last 100 years how often do you think modern military combat involved a weaponless encounter? Now measure whatever percentage of conflicts you think this involved against time spent training for it.

I would suggest most of them to some extent ! Unless you can quite a good few were it didn't occur At all,

If the time you spent training it results in you not being killed, it makes good sence. you could equally ask what % of the general population needs ma skills in a year, not many at all, but yet we all train for a situation that probably won't happen, even those of us who carry guns still train for not having them

of course leaning unarmed combat, doesNt preclude your opponent having a weapon , just that you are disarming him with out one

 

[now disabled]

In the last 100 years how often do you think modern military combat involved a weaponless encounter? Now measure whatever percentage of conflicts you think this involved against time spent training for it.

You could counter that by saying how many encounters have happened in the last 350 years without a weapon being involved in a military situation?

just countering not being offensive to your post

 

[WaterGal]

You could counter that by saying how many encounters have happened in the last 350 years without a weapon being involved in a military situation?

just countering not being offensive to your post

Heck, the same could be said of the last 3500 years. As long as there's been armies, soldiers have primarily fought with weapons, whether those weapons were swords and spears, pikes and crossbows, muskets and cannon, or rifles and artillery.

 

[now disabled]

Heck, the same could be said of the last 3500 years. As long as there's been armies, soldiers have primarily fought with weapons, whether those weapons were swords and spears, pikes and crossbows, muskets and cannon, or rifles and artillery.

I was playing devils advocate lol
I merely picked a bigger number.
I actually do know how soldiers fight lol

 

[Tez3]

Try living in Scotland.

I did, Aberdeen, and left as soon as I was able!

 

[Tez3]

I was playing devils advocate lol
I merely picked a bigger number.
I actually do know how soldiers fight lol

I know how soldiers fight on and off duty.

 

[TrueJim]

Heck, the same could be said of the last 3500 years. As long as there's been armies, soldiers have primarily fought with weapons, whether those weapons were swords and spears, pikes and crossbows, muskets and cannon, or rifles and artillery.

...and, as an aside, throughout history, many combat activities eventually becomes a sport. The marathon began with a soldier running to Athens to deliver intel. The javelin (spear) throw was an Olympic event even in ancient Greece. The modern pentathlon mimics a cavalry soldier escaping from enemy territory. Fencing, archery, target shooting...they all derive from combat arts. Even today, what are the most popular eSports? Call of Duty, World of Tanks, Street Fighter, Counter-Strike, etc.

If soldiers train it, eventually they compete it. When civilians see soldiers doing it, they want to try their hands at it too. The next thing you know, we're conducting tournaments and handing out medals. Spectators show up, and before you know it -- voila! -- you have a sport.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I would suggest most of them to some extent ! Unless you can quite a good few were it didn't occur At all,

If the time you spent training it results in you not being killed, it makes good sence. you could equally ask what % of the general population needs ma skills in a year, not many at all, but yet we all train for a situation that probably won't happen, even those of us who carry guns still train for not having them

of course leaning unarmed combat, doesNt preclude your opponent having a weapon , just that you are disarming him with out one

I guess we will simply disagree. I know of no modern military that does not equip it's combatants with guns and knives. Before that it was swords and spears etc.

 

[Earl Weiss]

You could counter that by saying how many encounters have happened in the last 350 years without a weapon being involved in a military situation?

just countering not being offensive to your post

No need to counter. Even going back before the rifle and handgun there were swords and spears etc. There is a reason military combatants are equipped with weapons.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Heck, the same could be said of the last 3500 years. As long as there's been armies, soldiers have primarily fought with weapons, whether those weapons were swords and spears, pikes and crossbows, muskets and cannon, or rifles and artillery.

Exactly. The only reason I limited it to the last 100 years or so was to coincide with the development of what we generally consider "Modern" martial art systems. Those practiced widely today and dispel the myth of some empty hand system being developed as a Military combat system which would be widely used on the battlefield. Anecdotal evidence such as Nam Tae Hi at Yongmun Mountain not withstanding.

 

[jobo]

I guess we will simply disagree. I know of no modern military that does not equip it's combatants with guns and knives. Before that it was swords and spears etc.

They set off with them, if it's possible or a good idea to use them is another thing all together,

You statement was that unarmed combat had not been use in wars in the last hundred years is clearly just wrong

 

[jobo]

...and, as an aside, throughout history, many combat activities eventually becomes a sport. The marathon began with a soldier running to Athens to deliver intel. The javelin (spear) throw was an Olympic event even in ancient Greece. The modern pentathlon mimics a cavalry soldier escaping from enemy territory. Fencing, archery, target shooting...they all derive from combat arts. Even today, what are the most popular eSports? Call of Duty, World of Tanks, Street Fighter, Counter-Strike, etc.

If soldiers train it, eventually they compete it. When civilians see soldiers doing it, they want to try their hands at it too. The next thing you know, we're conducting tournaments and handing out medals. Spectators show up, and before you know it -- voila! -- you have a sport.

Well no, the marathon is certainly named after that battle, but it didn't invent distance running, there is more than a little debate if run even happened, it took another 2000 years for it to be revived, Named and stuck in the modern Olympics

Soccer on the other hand started as a combat sport, that vaguely involved a ball and developed from there, to a largely non contact sport, a bit like wing chun,