What are some signs that an instructor is just in it for the money?

[pdg]

I understand where you're coming from, but I think that approach is backwards. Looking for a location first then adjusting the tuition after you've bought/leased the place isn't a great business model. I think instructors should know what their income is and only get a place that they can afford without a lot of students. If you need X amount of students to pay the bills and half your students leave is it fair to start charging the remaining students double? I think staying within a reasonable price point for a location is a good way to avoid those kinds of problems.

Forgive me if I misunderstand, but it appears you're talking the difference between the high street and the industrial estate where you're looking at the same clientele.

I'm talking the difference between Stockbridge and London...

Also, your statement looks like from a school owner perspective, whereas I'm coming from a potential customer.

 

[Anarax]

Forgive me if I misunderstand, but it appears you're talking the difference between the high street and the industrial estate where you're looking at the same clientele.

I'm talking the difference between Stockbridge and London...

Also, your statement looks like from a school owner perspective, whereas I'm coming from a potential customer.

When discussing tuition price as a whole it's best to try and see it from both sides. What can/will the student pay? What will the teacher charge? Why the teachers charges what they do? Evaluating what you get in return for your tuition is still looking at it from the customer's perceptive.

 

[pdg]

When discussing tuition price as a whole it's best to try and see it from both sides. What can/will the student pay? What will the teacher charge? Why the teachers charges what they do? Evaluating what you get in return for your tuition is still looking at it from the customer's perceptive.

Yes, but my point (that you replied to) was about price comparison across different areas.

Overheads Vs what your clients might pay is utterly different in a small country town than in a sprawling metropolis.

In the places I used as examples - you won't get anyone paying London rates in Stockbridge, and you won't keep London lights on with Stockbridge level tuition fees.

A good comparison is beer.

Go to the pub in my village, it's about £4 for a pint. Now go to inner city London and it'll be nearer £15.

Same product, different location costs and clientele.

Back to MA, I pay £40/month for up to 9 hours a week - I found out quite a while after I started that it's one of the cheapest places in this area. Go to Southampton, it'll likely be double that, go to London, it'll probably be more than that per week.

Go to the US, I have no clue...

Ergo - nobody can really ever say whether someone else's fees are fair or not unless they live close enough for a valid comparison and know the local market.

 

[Anarax]

Yes, but my point (that you replied to) was about price comparison across different areas.

I replied to both your comment and KD's comment in the same reply. My comment applies to both of your statements though.

Overheads Vs what your clients might pay is utterly different in a small country town than in a sprawling metropolis.

The instructor needs to get a place that suits the needs of him and his students. Approaching it with a sounds business model will help keep tuition costs down. If he gets an expensive place but needs to charge his students 3 times as much as other schools in the same area to pay the rent, he's going to have a harder time gaining/keeping students.

Back to MA, I pay £40/month for up to 9 hours a week - I found out quite a while after I started that it's one of the cheapest places in this area. Go to Southampton, it'll likely be double that, go to London, it'll probably be more than that per week.

Places like New York, South Florida and some places in California are the more expensive areas in the US. There are quite a few schools in those areas that charge more reasonable rates than others in the same area. A crucial part of any business is to keep costs down. Keeping the overhead down while simultaneously keeping the price to consumer reasonable is what many businesses are constantly trying to improve on.

Ergo - nobody can really ever say whether someone else's fees are fair or not unless they live close enough for a valid comparison and know the local market.

Of course you can. You just need to look at what is offered(class hours, open gym, workout equipment, etc). Location plays a factor, but there are many more factors to look at when doing a cost-benefit analysis as a potential customer.

 

[dvcochran]

I would say if he stops teaching and gets an MBA or a law degree or some other route to a high paying job. Which, I would say for most people, teaching martial arts probably is not.

Hmm, I have two Masters degrees and have been teaching for over 2 decades. I would say that is a very bad example. My education is what has allowed me the flexibility to keep teaching. Yours is a very bad example.

 

[Flying Crane]

Hmm, I have two Masters degrees and have been teaching for over 2 decades. I would say that is a very bad example. My education is what has allowed me the flexibility to keep teaching. Yours is a very bad example.

Don’t get hung up on the particulars. It’s more about the spirit of it.

 

[Jaeimseu]

I’ve yet to meet an instructor who is in it ONLY for the money. I’ve also not met a successful school owner who wasn’t in it at all for the money.

Fair tuition costs equal what the market will bear. In my opinion, business owners should leverage every dollar they can (without doing something unethical or illegal), just like anyone with a job should do. MA schools offer a service which delivers many benefits. The value is what the market says it is.


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[now disabled]

That's the game man. Kids programs are what keeps the lights on and allow them to teach their usually much smaller adult class, the real training. Leasing space is expensive.

Your right there

 

[DaveB]

lol no, this student has learned all of his material for his next rank but he attends irregularly and when he does come he often can't perform the material well enough to test if he remembers it at all.
There are three of us who all started around the same time about a year ago and we've surpassed this guy who has been there 1-2 years longer than us. That's what I mean by the adult classes being more individualized. We progress at our own pace whereas the kids all progress at the same pace as long as they show up for class.

That's more a sign that the teacher understands that kids in a martial arts class are there for benefits other than badassery, and that parents are a great way to keep the lights on.

 

[dvcochran]

Don’t get hung up on the particulars. It’s more about the spirit of it.

I don't get your last comment either. ??? You specifically said a person who has a lot of education are bad instructors because they are in it for the money. How as I supposed to take the "spirit" of that comment. Yea, I am offended.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Hmm, I have two Masters degrees and have been teaching for over 2 decades. I would say that is a very bad example. My education is what has allowed me the flexibility to keep teaching. Yours is a very bad example.

I think he was being tongue in cheek. Saying that people in a field for the money will quickly quit MA teaching for a more higher paying job. Not that getting those degrees means you're in MA teaching for the money.

I could be misunderstanding, but that's how I understood it.

 

[dvcochran]

I think he was being tongue in cheek. Saying that people in a field for the money will quickly quit MA teaching for a more higher paying job. Not that getting those degrees means you're in MA teaching for the money.

I could be misunderstanding, but that's how I understood it.

Its no big deal. I have heard the inference used in many different ways. It is usually humorous. I guess this one rubbed me the wrong way a little because it seemed quite literal. I am from the south and have a very strong southern accent. I have done a lot of work in the northern states and Canada and it is still surprising how quickly some think your southern accent is paramount with being uneducated.

 

[Headhunter]

So what if he is in it for money doesnt mean he is a bad instructor.

 

[Flying Crane]

I don't get your last comment either. ??? You specifically said a person who has a lot of education are bad instructors because they are in it for the money. How as I supposed to take the "spirit" of that comment. Yea, I am offended.

I was being facetious.

I believe most people who are teaching martial arts are not getting rich from it. It’s a tough way to make a living. So the notion that there is this huge money vault that people can easily tap into by teaching martial arts is a bit silly.

So someone who is “in it for the money”, meaning they are just looking to get rich, would be better off getting a law degree or an MBA or a medical degree or a computer science degree or an engineering degree and pursuing a different profession that is more likely to pay them a big salary.

 

[WaterGal]

I think tuition should always be relative to how many class hours are available per week/month. That being said, schools that charge $150 a month or more for an average amount of training hours a month is excessive.

A lot of "what is a reasonable price" really depends on the location. Cost-of-living (and just as importantly, the cost of commercial real estate) varies so much in different parts of the US, that what seems very reasonable in one place would be outrageous in another or too low to pay the rent in a third. The same facility could cost $2,000/month to lease in one zip code, and $8,000/month in another. The tuition level needed to sustain the school in the latter market would seem quite excessive in the former.

 

[JR 137]

A lot of "what is a reasonable price" really depends on the location. Cost-of-living (and just as importantly, the cost of commercial real estate) varies so much in different parts of the US, that what seems very reasonable in one place would be outrageous in another or too low to pay the rent in a third. The same facility could cost $2,000/month to lease in one zip code, and $8,000/month in another. The tuition level needed to sustain the school in the latter market would seem quite excessive in the former.

My organization’s honbu (headquarters) dojo is a few doors down from the Flatiron building in Manhattan. According to a website I just closed and can’t find again, the average lease is about $130/sq ft per year. That dojo has over 7000 sq ft of space. Doing a bit of math, if I were to lease 7000 sq ft in that neighborhood today, I’d be paying a little over $80,000 per month.

Rhetorical question - how much would I need to charge for tuition?

And according to another website, there’s no rent control for commercial property in NYC. So even if you’ve been at your location for decades, you’re going to pay the going rate every time you renew your lease. And it’s not like you’ve got much bargaining power - they’ll fill the space very quickly if you want to hardball them.

 

[Anarax]

A lot of "what is a reasonable price" really depends on the location. Cost-of-living (and just as importantly, the cost of commercial real estate) varies so much in different parts of the US, that what seems very reasonable in one place would be outrageous in another or too low to pay the rent in a third. The same facility could cost $2,000/month to lease in one zip code, and $8,000/month in another. The tuition level needed to sustain the school in the latter market would seem quite excessive in the former.

Please refer to my replies to PDG and KM. They said exactly the same thing.

 

[wanderingstudent]

Well, I would say if there was a fee for every little thing. For instance, Say there were mandatory seminars- but you had to pay. Or, they expect a mat fee. Or, maybe a locker fee. Your gut will tell you.

 

[jobo]

Yes, but my point (that you replied to) was about price comparison across different areas.

Overheads Vs what your clients might pay is utterly different in a small country town than in a sprawling metropolis.

In the places I used as examples - you won't get anyone paying London rates in Stockbridge, and you won't keep London lights on with Stockbridge level tuition fees.

A good comparison is beer.

Go to the pub in my village, it's about £4 for a pint. Now go to inner city London and it'll be nearer £15.

Same product, different location costs and clientele.

Back to MA, I pay £40/month for up to 9 hours a week - I found out quite a while after I started that it's one of the cheapest places in this area. Go to Southampton, it'll likely be double that, go to London, it'll probably be more than that per week.

Go to the US, I have no clue...

Ergo - nobody can really ever say whether someone else's fees are fair or not unless they live close enough for a valid comparison and know the local market.

Where did you pay £15 for a pint of beer in london ? Its abiut a fiver a pint, getting up to 7 or 8 in tourist traps. You need to go in to very posh hotels to get charged anything near that

 

[pdg]

Where did you pay £15 for a pint of beer in london ? Its abiut a fiver a pint, getting up to 7 or 8 in tourist traps. You need to go in to very posh hotels to get charged anything near that

O2 arena, Wembley arena, random posh looking pub near O2...

That's what the prices displayed were - I'm far too tight to pay that though, I went to Tesco and bought some cans instead