MT Senior Moderator
Lifetime Supporting Member
- Sep 3, 2009
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- Pueblo West, CO
It's funny that people keep saying this.
Even if you ignore the influence of Chinese martial arts, there's at least three different styles of karate alone that were represented in early taekwondo.
- Shotokon - Won Kuk Lee, Byung Jick Ro, Choi Hong Hi
- Shūdōkan - Byung In Yoon
- Shitō-ryū - Kwe Byung Yoon
german wiki says he gave the name taekwondo. and people should stop believing that arts like karate or taekwondo are thousands of years old. their ancestors, mostly chinese martial arts, surely are.
whatever to get the point if the OP takes a look on the biggest federations and their free fighting style, itf and wtf (or whatever they are called now) taekwondo and wkf karate, he will see more similarities than differences.
whyle itf closer to wkf than the "olympic style" wtf.
and people should stop believing that arts like karate or taekwondo are thousands of years old. their ancestors, mostly chinese martial arts, surely are.
i referred to shotokan here. wkf kumite is based on that.
i know the difference to goju. thats why i said, differences between karate styles are bigger than tkd to shotokan.
german wiki says he gave the name taekwondo.
Neither do we. This is primarily a trait seen in sport-oriented schools.
One out of three "differences" is real.
All kicks, by the way, are done off both legs and also in both rear and forward stance.
I'll give a list and you can tick off what you know/do lol.
Maegeri Front kick
Mawashigeri round kick
Fumikomi stamping kick
Hizageri knee kick
ushiro Kingei backward groin kick
Soto Mawashigeri outward groin kick
Mikazukigeri crescent kick
Soto Mikazukigeri outward crescent kick
Ushiro Mawashigeri back round kick
Otoshigeri dropping kick
We also do an inverse crescent kick which is like a figure four, I can't describe it very well though, I find showing much easier.
Tobigeri are jumping kicks, all of the above can be done jumping, some can also be done in jumping scissors style too. sidekick can be done jumping or 'flying. Kicks are often combined with hand/arm strikes.
I had to youtube the list, and the only ones that I've not seen in (KKW/WTF) TKD is the backward groin kick and the outward groin kick. However, we do have a hook kick, an outside variant of the ax/dropping kick, scissor kick, split kick, and a body-level version of the turning heel/back hook/back round kick.
I had to youtube the list since I don't know the Japanese names, and the only ones that I've not seen in (KKW/WTF) TKD is the backward groin kick and the outward groin kick. However, we do have a hook kick, an outside variant of the ax/dropping kick, scissor kick, split kick, and a body-level version of the turning heel/back hook/back round kick.
Definitely a lot of similarities.
The date on the Chung Do Kwan piece bellow is incorrect. Chung Do Kwan was opened in 1944, not 1945.
Gen. Choi was a student of Grandmaster Won Kuk LEE. This makes it appear as if they were contemporaries. That was not their relationship. They were master & student.
I think the difference may be in the execution of them, sometimes too though the names may confuse. We have two types of front kick, a 'push' kick and a 'snap' kick.
The 'axe' kick is a straight up and down kick ( the knee is up, bent, goes up then down, a clumsy description sorry) whereas I believe TKD does it as a crescent kick type?
the front kick for example too can be done as a straight kick either off the back or front leg, a straight up and down jump kick and as a scissors jump kick either on the spot or travelling. Most kicks can be spinning kicks too.
Do you have stamping kick because I haven't seen them in TKD though that doesn't mean a lot or the straight groin kick, instep kick to the testicles? ( no surprise you probably don't see that a lot lol)
So far I know Chon-ji, Dan-Gun, Do-San, And Won-Hyo.
We teach both, as well.
We teach all three versions. All have their place...
Yup. Same as us.
Yes, we do. You don't see them used in competition, for obvious reasons, but they are certainly taught.
To be honest, I'm never sure how to handle starting-dates properly. From what I've read, Won-Kuk Lee returned to Korea in 1944 and was given permission to teach Shotokan karate but only to Japanese nationals. So should we start the Chung Do Kwan date from there? Is it fair to call it a Korean kwan when all the students must be Japanese?
Then later Lee was allowed to teach to Korean nationals at Yungshin School gymnasium in Seol, but only to select Koreans. So should we start the Chung Do Kwan date from when Lee was allowed to teach his martial art to Koreans?
Or should we start it after the end of World War II, when Lee was finally allowed to teach to whomever he liked?
There's similar dilemmas with other schools too. When Byung Rick Jo originally started teaching in Kaesong his school failed. So he relocated to Seoul and tried again, this time successfully. So which of these events counts as the start of his kwan?
Of course all kwan want to push their start dates as far into the past as possible, but the reality is a lot of the schools beginnings had "fuzzy" start dates. Like, "Oh, I'm just teaching my friends after work" to "Oh look, more people want my instruction! I guess we can call this a school now." When does a kwan become a kwan?
That's a fair point. While still fitting everything relevant to the early kwan on a single page (and keeping it legible), how would you re-diagram that?
So far I know Chon-ji, Dan-Gun, Do-San, And Won-Hyo.