Warning shot fired by security guard: Stupid, but legal

[Bill Mattocks]

In this case, at least. Man, this security guard was a dangerous clown. However, he got lucky - his charges were dismissed. However, there is much to learn here about what NOT to do.

http://www.tradingmarkets.com/news/...-the-j-c-penney-guard-who-fired--1052328.html

A former J.C. Penney Co. store guard who fired a gun as a suspected shoplifter fled into the Valley View Mall parking lot was being stupid -- but not reckless, at least as state law defines it, a judge said Monday.
Dler Anwar Anwar, 34, was charged with recklessly handling a firearm after shooting into the air during a March 26 pursuit of a suspected shoplifter.

 

[CoryKS]

1) It's permissible to use deadly force if a felony has been committed;
2) A theft of > $200 is considered a felony; therefore
3) It's permissible to shoot shoplifters

I'd be curious to know if Virginia actually considers shoplifting to be a shootable offense or if that's an unintended consequence of trying to impose higher penalties on theft of high-dollar items.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

1) It's permissible to use deadly force if a felony has been committed;
2) A theft of > $200 is considered a felony; therefore
3) It's permissible to shoot shoplifters

I'd be curious to know if Virginia actually considers shoplifting to be a shootable offense or if that's an unintended consequence of trying to impose higher penalties on theft of high-dollar items.

There were two other factors in play here. He did not fire at the suspect, he fired a 'warning shot' in the air instead. And he was not authorized by his employer to be carrying a firearm in the first place. He was apparently terminated for that action.

Many states allow for deadly force to be used to prevent the escape of a suspected felon when the person making the apprehension is a witness to the felony. The person need not be a police officer. So this is not that unusual or even unique to Virginia.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

*FACEPALM* :rpo: :rpo: :rpo:


As a carry permit holder, firearms safety instructor and someone taking every course he can afford in order to become a better personal protection specialist, let me make this as clear as I can : WE DO NOT DO THIS ANYMORE.

This isn't the 1960's anymore and the laws have changed since then,
and you WILL be held to account for every round you let loose if anyone is injured or killed who did not earn such justification by a threat of deadly force.

In as simple math as I can break it down into:

*Intentionally firing a shot without knowing exactly where you intend it to go=NEGLIGENCE

*NEGLIGENCE + DEATH= MANSLAUGHTER.

Suppose his fired round had not terminated harmlessly? suppose on the way back down it hits some poor lady bringing her groceries in some miles distant?

Massad Ayoob cites just such a case that happened in the 80's in many of his LFI classes. Someone fired a "warning shot", hit that woman on the way down some ways distant. Round hit her square in her heart, within less than a minute by the coroner's estimation, she was dead.



Anybody want to speculate on what that guy's chances were in court?



Did I forget to mention WE DO NOT DO THIS ANYMORE.

 

[CanuckMA]

Why does there seem to be this idea that rounds fired in the air simply vanish?

You let a round loose, you better know where it's going.

 

[celtic_crippler]

If you're going to expend a round, at least put it in he perp and not trust to fate that it will fall to the earth without causing injury to an innocent.

...but then, I don't have any problem with shop lifters being shot.

 

[Tez3]

There were two other factors in play here. He did not fire at the suspect, he fired a 'warning shot' in the air instead. And he was not authorized by his employer to be carrying a firearm in the first place. He was apparently terminated for that action.

Many states allow for deadly force to be used to prevent the escape of a suspected felon when the person making the apprehension is a witness to the felony. The person need not be a police officer. So this is not that unusual or even unique to Virginia.

They killed him?