Warming Up

[JDenz]

I think the line of the thread was warming up before practice/ tournament. The reason for that is to prevent injury's in training. You are going to do alot worse in the street if you are walking around with a limp and a hurt shoulder.

 

[Erkki]

Originally posted by JDenz
I think the line of the thread was warming up before practice/ tournament. The reason for that is to prevent injury's in training. You are going to do alot worse in the street if you are walking around with a limp and a hurt shoulder.

There is no evidence that a traditional warmup consisting of mild aerobic exercise followed by static stretching will prevent injury. In fact, Russian Gymnasts did no static stretching before a competition and history shows that they performed just fine.
Warmups should be geared more towards getting your mind-muscle connection 'in the groove' for the activity you are doing.

For more info on why warm ups are overrated and how to train your body so you don't need them, I recommend the books Power to the People, Relax Into Stretch (endorsed by Bill Wallace, who knows a thing or two about flexibility) and Super Joints, by Pavel Tsatsouline. Most Barnes&Noble stores carry them, or you can get them from http://www.dragondoor.com.
I've also heard good things about the book Stretching Scientifically, by Thomas Kurz. He also says you should be able to perform high kicks and splits with no warm up. It's on my list of books to buy.

 

[thepanjr]

nice info

 

[TigerWoman]

I have Kurtz's book. His theory is that if you do dynamic exercise first in the morning, your muscles are set for that range of motion for the rest of the day. But the older you get....I found that my muscles tighten down more so I have to re-stretch again before my workou at noon so, forget that.

I think its best to do range-of-motion exercise for the joints--neck, shoulder, torso, hips, knees and ankles then do the dynamic rising kicks, front, side and back, gently up to range for beginners, about 30. For the rest of us, 15-20 should do it. Static only at the end after the workout. TW

 

[JenniM]

Ok as a qualified fitness instructor as well as martial artist I hold courses on physical fitness instruction for all of our Instructors - the basic structure of which is:-

Pulse Raiser/Mobility - Gradually increasing the heart rate and core temperature of the body through low impact progressive continuous movements involving large muscle groups thereby getting the flow flowing to the muscles. Getting the joints moving gently increasing the synovial fluid which will avoid any injuries later on.
Couple of Maintenance Stretches 6 - 10 seconds for quads, hamstrings, deltoids, Pecs etc.
Sustained cardio - utilising high impact aerobic exercise to improve cardiovascular endurance for a good 15 minutes
Cool Down - Bringing the heart rate back down gradually and reversing the cardiovascular build-up, progressively reducing the impact from high to low to avoid blood pooling i.e suddenly stopping cardio work and the blood rushing into the open blood vessels of your lower body's active muscles and less blood being pumped to the brain thereby causing dizziness/fainting.
Muscle Strength Work - working Abs, Adductors, Abductors, Hamstrings, Erector Spinae etc i.e sit ups, push ups, etc.
Finally Flexibility - Stretching - depending upon time at least short maintenance stretches of all the muscles worked in the Muscle Strength Work section as well as a couple of Developmental Stretches to improve upon present range of movement.
I have found that using the above as a guide our Instructors are able to provide a good overall workout for students incorporating their martial arts training. I would certainly always ensure that at the very least your core temperature is raised prior to executing any stretching technique. If you look at your training regime you will be able to write your own work-out using the above as a basic guideline to safe exercise practice.

Hope this helps a little - I'm new to Martial Talk so this is only my second attempt at throwing in my two pennies worth

 

[TigerWoman]

Welcome Jenny to the board. Thank you for you input. We generally cool-down after strength training though as that brings the heart rate up again. Even our forms practice, which is in the latter part of the class, if you are doing it to full power brings the heart rate up. I find that nobody--nobody--does stretching after the class is over and our instructor seldom has that as part of the class. I tried to bring it to everyone's attention. But I still see everyone doing static stretches before class, on machine too. But its not my school... TW

 

[hardheadjarhead]

My warm up is a little more low impact. 30 minutes Xbox/playsation2, 15-20 minutes t.v, bag of cookies or bowl of ice cream followed up by 5 minutes on the can.

Dude, your self discipline is incredible. NOBODY I know can walk away from a Playstation after only half an hour.

Personally, I believe in cross training. I play Playstation while eating ice cream and sitting on the pot.


On a more serious note, as you age...be more careful about warming up properly. One of my thirty eight year old black belts through a way-too-ambitious above the head level side kick yesterday. We heard a ripping sound, and he lost his balance and went down. I thought he'd torn his pants.

It was his hamstring.


Regards,


Steve

 

[47MartialMan]

I dont "warm up" unless it is very cold outside or inside.

 

[still learning]

Hello, I just read somewhere as you age, we lose about 30% or more of our muscles. This is for those over 40 years and I am in the 50's. At least not the hair yet. Muscles "yes" it seem to take longer to recover after classes.

Our warm-up usually start with jumping rope, arm swings,bends, moving into different type of stretches for about 20 min. or so. We have been doing more plyrometrics stuffs too. Beats drinking coffee first? ......Aloha

Hawaii is the only State to raise commercial coffee in America. My wifes' family grows the "Kona Coffee" on about 20 acres of land. Usually cost $20.00 lb or more. Need some? Whole bean or grounds medium roast or dark roast , home grown for $15.00 a pound. ( This is for information only). ...Aloha

 

[47MartialMan]

Nice plug...PM me more details

 

[Miles]

Jenny, Thanks for your input.

When you say "stretch", are you referring to active or static stretching? I have read where static stretching is actually bad for martial artists compared to active stretching. (Sort of like caffeine though-this week it's good, next week it's bad).

Should the stretching always be done after the warm-up?

BTW, Tigerwoman mentioned Thomas Kurz-he has a column in each Taekwondo Times and that alone is worth the price of the magazine.

Miles

 

[Paul Genge]

Having a warm up routine is benificial for an athlete. That way it prepares them mentally for the activity of competition. The reason for this is that the mind becomes hardwired that a certain routine will lead to hard physical activity.

The problem is that this is the opposite of what a martial artist needs. Fights do not start with 10 minutes to stretch off and a short run. They happen without out time to prepare and the body needs to be able to go from 0 to 100% in a split second. By using a warm up programe we are in danger of prevented this ability. Our subconcious will hold back slightly because we have not warmed up. In fact there is no evidence that stretching or warm up drills prevent injury. The only thing that does work is mobilisation of the joints. This causes fluid to flow into the joints lubricating them.

If high kicking is your thing and extreme flexibility your game try doing your felxibility work as a separate session from your technique and sparring session. At least that way you will be aware how you move without the time to stretch out.

Paul Genge
http://www.russianmartialart.org.uk

 

[TigerWoman]

If high kicking is your thing and extreme flexibility your game try doing your felxibility work as a separate session from your technique and sparring session. At least that way you will be aware how you move without the time to stretch out.

For anyone over 40, maybe over 30, flexibility work without stretching out would be dangerous. I taught a newbie, orange belt, 25yr. old guy who said just lately, he skipped dynamic exercise first for an exercise session at home, and pulled a groin muscle. Only doing mobility exercises for the joints, then starting into high kicks or split stretching would be asking for a pull-- sprain or strain. Dynamic exercises go up gradually, warming up the muscle in a similar way that it is going to be used. I think this is imperative before doing any hard kicks. If you are younger and are flexible already though, maybe you just have to do them first thing in the morning to be able to kick high cold later in the day, as Kurz says in his book. And those that can normally kick high when warmed up also have a less chance of pulling something when kicking cold at a lower level. But first you got to get there. So go slowly and wisely. TW

 

[JenniM]

Jenny, Thanks for your input.

When you say "stretch", are you referring to active or static stretching? I have read where static stretching is actually bad for martial artists compared to active stretching. (Sort of like caffeine though-this week it's good, next week it's bad).

Should the stretching always be done after the warm-up?

BTW, Tigerwoman mentioned Thomas Kurz-he has a column in each Taekwondo Times and that alone is worth the price of the magazine.

Miles

Hi Miles - well we tend to do both Static-Active and Static-Passive Stretching - what we tend to avoid at all costs is Ballistic stretching!! Whatever type of stretch you are doing I believe it is the Instructor who will in the most determine whether these are safe and effective and performed correctly or performed incorrectly and be potentially damaging and this is all done to coaching and the level of information we empower our students with to maximise their own stretching ability. I would be interested to read the Article though!!

Should the stretching always be done after the warm-up?

Stretching done to increase flexibility should be performed at the end of a warm up session when the muscles are warm and most responsive. Another appropriate time to stretch for flexibility is after a muscle strengthening exercise. Tigerwoman (Hi !!btw) mentions that she cools down after an MSE session before stretching to bring the heart rate back down - certainly if the MSE is being performed vigorously with many repetitions the heart rate will increase and this will be the case - however we tend to do very slow controlled MSE work which does not significantly increase the heart rate which facilities being able to move on to flexibility work straight after.

I also like to do gentle preparatory stretches held for three to 10 seconds during any warm-up to help prepare the joints for movement and prevent any soft tissue injury. These stretches are not performed to enhance flexibility but to stimulate neurological responses and prepare the muscles for activity.

BTW, Tigerwoman mentioned Thomas Kurz-he has a column in each Taekwondo Times and that alone is worth the price of the magazine.

I have some of Thomas Kurz's books - very interesting and a mound of information - there is so much scientific information now on stretching but I like to keep it simple, give students, who come from all walks of life and levels of fitness, options with their stretches to hopefully enable them to gain the best improvement individually for them over a period of time.

Great thread

Miles[/QUOTE]

 

[arnisador]

I've never been so big on the warm-up. Practicing warms me up!

 

[mj-hi-yah]

Hope this helps a little - I'm new to Martial Talk so this is only my second attempt at throwing in my two pennies worth

Welcome JenniM! Nice to have you here and thanks for sharing from your perspective as a fitness instructor. I look forward to having you participate more often. I'm curious how long are the classes you teach?

MJ

 

[JenniM]

Welcome JenniM! Nice to have you here and thanks for sharing from your perspective as a fitness instructor. I look forward to having you participate more often. I'm curious how long are the classes you teach?

MJ

Thankyou!! I don't get much time to post too much but its a great site!! Our classes usually run approx an hour and a half for different grades - it is difficult to incorporate the warm up components within the timescale but we try to implement the structure within our syllabi training - its seems to work for us but sometimes I must admit classes run over - but stretching those worked muscles however they've worked within their class is something that I instill in all our Instructors - there's nothing better than seeing students improve in their mobility, flexibility and overall fitness as well as learning a great martial art and putting a smile on their face!!

JM

 

[mj-hi-yah]

Thankyou!! I don't get much time to post too much but its a great site!! Our classes usually run approx an hour and a half for different grades - it is difficult to incorporate the warm up components within the timescale but we try to implement the structure within our syllabi training - its seems to work for us but sometimes I must admit classes run over - but stretching those worked muscles however they've worked within their class is something that I instill in all our Instructors - there's nothing better than seeing students improve in their mobility, flexibility and overall fitness as well as learning a great martial art and putting a smile on their face!!

JM

JM,

That's a good length of time for a class to include all of your stretching and cool down stuff. For us the warm-ups often incorporate things we need to teach or work on so we can maximize our use of time, but we could always use some more time and ideas for stretching.

Participate when you can and have fun here!:boing1:

MJ

 

[47MartialMan]

We generally try to get the students to warm up greatly right before class. Then their actual class time is spent on technique/methods, and not wasted with warming routines that eat of class time.

 

[Satelite]

you stretch cold?
Many people would say, run and than stretch.
No offence implied.