2nd Black Belt
- Jan 2, 2006
- Reaction score
You completely misunderstand the dynamic involved.
Don't you think there is a difference between an outside army and culture attempting to change another country and an internal struggle?
You seem to be making the assumption that this would be a purely military struggle, and not a struggle based on a cultural and political dynamic. One which very few in the United States understands. That coupled with a military dimension could allow those "few" (although damn near everyone in those countries owns weapons) civilians with their "few" rifles to win such a struggle.
No assumptions here, but you seem to be under the assumption that if you posit an impossible solution that these nations' citizens are not undertaking, it must be because they are sympathetic to terrorism.
No one said that those things weren't controlled in some of those countries. But you can't control the airwaves. Beyond which, you're missing yet another dynamic. Islamic terrorism isn't merely restricted to the Middle East and Afganistan. It's Chechnya, the Phillipines, southern China, Pakistan. Travellers from all over the world go to these countries. Information is spread in them in abundance which could show them the error of their ways.
You're serious, arent you...
No I have not, which is why I continue to ask question, to which I am given replies with no evidence, and are nebulous at best. You are the one making the claim. In a debate, it is up to the claimant to provide proof of their position, not merely for the other person to refute it. I'm the one damn near begging people to show me that the things that terrorists and their supporters condone are not a part of the Islamic faith.
The only claim I made, to which you decided to reply to in addition to lumping a slew of other concoctions, was that I stated the 2 of the greatest things a Muslim can do are to keep up Prayer, and give to the poor. Not a difficult claim to substantiate, if you read the QURAN. But if you wish to refute it, tell me what is greater for a Muslim to do, with sources. C'mon, you've read some books.
So, list the things that terrorists condone, and we can examine whether they are part of Islamic faith. (You may also need to define the Islamic faith, because a lot of Muslims consider it their duty to understand Islam their entire life, so we may be here a while waiting for you to enlighten us all as to what it's about...)
However, I have read articles by Muslims, spoken to Muslims, spoken to those that have lived in Muslim countries, spoken to terrorism experts, read books on terrorism and Islam, listened to Muslim speakers, and a few other things.
What have you done?
That list is starting to read like a McDojo resume. "I've had my photo woth Chuck Norris, shook hands with Steven Seagal and sat next to Ed Parker." Clearly you are talking to all the wrong people, if you are "begging people to show you" that terrorism is not part of Islam.
But OK, I'll bite. I've also done everything you have explicitly listed, except read books on terrorism and "talked to experts" - whatever that means. In addition, I practice the faith, entered into Islamic martimonial engagement, and stayed in Pakistan 3 times (soon 4) this year alone. I'm as white as rice, and I walk freely and comfortably when I am there. Is it luck? However, I will admit, there are other Muslim majority countries I would not want to go to.
But, since you choose to get all defensive about it, I will suppose that you can not prove your position, which leaves me, as the questionee, to assume that there is no proof which supports your position. Not only that, but I wasn't attacking your credibilty, merely asking for your credentials.
Not only that, but even if those are two of the greatest things under Islamic edict, that still in no way says that what modern day terrorists are doing is outside of the perviews of that faith. That is what you, and others, have yet to refute.
Nobody's defensive here. I'm quite centered and comfortable in my position, and it is easily proven. You chose to quote my initial post. (Also, up above you state in a debate someone cannot simply refute an assertion, so I think you mean I need to provide proof, if only I were here to talk about terrorists.) You say terrorism is within the perviews of that faith. Sounds like it is your burden to provide the proof.
My posts have to do with the innocent people whose religion you scrutinize due to the actions of a few in the name of said religion.
In support, I've only officially entered the following statements:
1. Prayer and paying the poor rate have great reward in the afterlife (not murder)
2. The fanatics are few, and control/silence the many innocent
3. Critics of terrorism in Muslim countries are vast, even if you do not hear them
Everything else is your position. I guess we can stop there, the rest of your points do not concern my topic, or original post.
But let's just suppose you somehow "win" your debate. You prove that Islam is centered on violence and a majority of the followers condone this violence and intend to spread their faith via such methods. (Although, it was not the intent of the 9/11 terrorists to spread Islam by flying planes into the towers.) Oh, that's right. They want to erradicate the non-believers, right? Yes, that's right. There's a verse somewhere that talks about it, so it must be the main objective of the entire religion. So let's forget all the other ones about not forcing Islam on non-believers.
As I stated before, terrists take a distorted interpretation and use it to force others to do their dirty work. If you agree with their hardline ideals, and say, "This must be the real goal of Islam," you only help to spread this distorted view.
I guess I've said all I can, or care to at this point. I suggest carefully thinking about the issue, and maybe getting some more information from reliable sources.