Validity of the Olympic Protests

[Andrew Green]

Then the question becomes, are we sure our way is better?

I imagine most over here would say it is, with a few desenters. After all it is how we where raised, we get the freedoms we where taught to demand, and the restrictions we grew to accept. But where we top ask a group of Chinese people, livining in China which way is better, what response would we get? I imagine most would say the Chinese way is better then the North American way, again with some descenters.

On both sides I suspect people would not deny that there system is not perfect, and needs some improvement, but both are working towards a goal, that perfect world you mention, however getting people to agree on what that perfect world looks like is a impossible task as we all value different aspects.

Communism has it's appeals, anyone that can't see or accept that is unable to look outside there own box IMO, same goes for capitalism. Which is correct? Well wars have been getting fought for a long time with that as the call to arms, on both sides. There is no easy answer, perhaps because neither system has a "perfect" solution, yet both have appeal to different problems.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I answered them all when I answered the first in the series. Since you yourself admitted that the massacre was unjustified, all the questions you asked were irrelevant. The actual answers are yes for some, no for others, and "doesn't matter" to all.



As I have stated repeatedly, history is no justification for atrocity. This continual harping on history does nothing to address my actual argument.



Oh sweet merciful Flying Spaghetti Monster, I WASN'T COMPARING THE CHINESE TO THE NAZIS! IT WAS AN ANALOGY! I even said it right out like two posts ago! Jesus, you think I'm bad about not responding to your actual arguments.



Physician, heal thyself! You have done nothing to address my actual arguments. You haven't even shown that you know what they are! All you are doing is sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting "IGNORANT! IGNORANT! HISTORY!" without even bothering to show how or why history supports what you are even saying. Or what you are even saying! It isn't clear! You've admitted that the massacre happened and was unjustified, you admitted that the invasion produced atrocities, yet here you still are! You haven't even really disagreed with my actual arguments!



You haven't even tried to show that anything I've said is incorrect!

I thought about going back through your posts, like I did in another post, to show you where you were jumping to major coclusions as to what I was saying when in fact I had not said it at all, like you have done previously, but then I thought of something.

Have you ever read “Zen in the Martial Arts” by Joe Hyams?

It is a good book you may want to pick up a copy.

On pages 47 to 48 he talks about a conversation he was having with Stirling Silliphant and Bruce Lee I will just kind of sum it up here, if you want the whole thing look at the book.

They are having a conversation about the difference between wasting time and spending time and the point of it is that life is too short to deal with people that just want to waste you time and not help you spend it.

nough said.

 

[Bodhisattva]

I'm sure everyone's aware of the ongoing protests of the Olympics being held in China due to China's slightly less-then-stellar treatment of Tibet. I gotta say that I myself have mixed emotions. On the one hand, as a believer in non-violent dissent and changing things through civic protest, I'm proud to hear of so many being willing to stand up for the rights of others. On the other hand, the Olympics have their history of being an international event for nations and peoples to come together, and might the protesters be spoiling such? Or did China already spoil it before hand through their actions?

As a note, I have to admire the torch-runner mentioned here, http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/24024416/, who'd brought along a Tibetan flag and planned to protest while still running the torch. Too bad the runner was grabbed as soon as the flag came out.

So just to broach the subject, what do you think regarding the protests? Should people really leave their politics at the door when it comes to the Olympics, or is even such a serious international institution a perfectly valid forum for confronting injustices?

I like protest, in general. I don't care if the protest even helps the problem - I just like when people decide that their own feelings matter and flood the streets about it.

It is much better than people NOT deciding that their feelings matter, and sitting inside their apartments placidly watching Seinfeld RERUNS that they have seen 30 times already...

I love protest. Love it.

When I see any group massed together, angry and upset and walking and screaming it out - I just get all warm and fuzzy and happy inside. I become like a sun - glowing and radiant and happy and grinning.

I like rebellion and protest and I want everyone to walk off the job and I want everyone to quit paying rent and to CARE for one another.

I love protest.

I hardly care what is being protested anymore - they can be protesting skinny broke white guys and I'll be dancing - a skinny broke white guy dancing but just the same - dancing. I love protest.

I was fed up at 6 years old, and it hasn't declined since. I love people who are fed up. I love people who have the personal authority to complain without shame. I love personal authority. My dog bit at me once, and I loved it so much for biting at me. He said "I am a person!" and I liked him for it.

If I see something little biting something bigger than it, I love that little biting thing so much I could almost burn up.

Even if it bites at me.

 

[Empty Hands]

What is going on in China is not good, but thinking it is a "China problem" is very hypocritical. One should make sure their yard is clean before complaining about there neighbours IMO.

This is just a tu quoque fallacy, basically. The sins of the protesters host country has nothing to do with the sins of the protested country. One can complain about China while still admitting the sins of one's own home country. The two have nothing to do with each other. After all, it is the citizens of the individual countries in question making all the noise, not the governments. The governments want to keep China happy so the trade money keeps rolling in!

Followed to the extreme, no one could ever complain about any injustice elsewhere since where they come from isn't perfect.

 

[Big Don]

Tibet is way down on the list of reasons to protest China in my book.

 

[AceHBK]

It just amazes me how Westerners like to point the finger at other countries on how they handle things but we refuse to let someone come in and clean our house. Thre is more than enought things wrong with our own country that she shouldn't say anything until we get our affairs in order. "The man that lives in a glass house should not throw stones", but we have a long standing history of throwing rocks, boulders and anything else.
Where are there protests to the genocides that are happening in Africa? When the olympics end and the tv cameras are off these same protestors will shut up.

 

[Bodhisattva]

It just amazes me how Westerners like to point the finger at other countries on how they handle things but we refuse to let someone come in and clean our house. Thre is more than enought things wrong with our own country that she shouldn't say anything until we get our affairs in order. "The man that lives in a glass house should not throw stones", but we have a long standing history of throwing rocks, boulders and anything else.
Where are there protests to the genocides that are happening in Africa? When the olympics end and the tv cameras are off these same protestors will shut up.

People have to pick a cause and support it. The protestors don't have time to protest EVERYTHING.

So some people protest CHINA, and you think that is worthless, because they aren't also protesting treatment in Africa, Thailand, Korea and Bosnia.

Your quote above refers to GOSSIP. It says "Do not GOSSIP about others, because you yourself are also imperfect."

These people aren't GOSSIPPING in the streets. They are PROTESTING the mistreatment of fellow living beings. That really doesn't apply to the "throw stones" quote.

Get our own affairs in order? You are right! We should!

However, it is a job that will never be FULLY completed, and so we would never, EVER stick our necks out for other people if we take your advice.

Protest is beautiful.

Whining at protestors because they are "impotent" or "complaining" or "should be protesting something different" is ... curious behavior.

 

[Bodhisattva]

Tibet is way down on the list of reasons to protest China in my book.

Agreed.

Lead paint, mistreatment of animals, forced slave labor, child prostitution, dangerous work conditions, child labor, MASSIVE environmental pollution, etc. etc. etc.

China's leadership sucks.

Unfortunately our leadership is really awful, too.

"Leadership" is just a crappy idea in general.