Using Nails in a Fight, Effective of Ineffective?

oftheherd1

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Yes that attack happens.

No those suggested defenses probably won't work.

It would be more difficult to use that defense but you probably wouldn't want to. I would just go right for the eyes. Fingernails optional.
 

drop bear

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It would be more difficult to use that defense but you probably wouldn't want to. I would just go right for the eyes. Fingernails optional.

The issue is you have to act in a manner that stops the attack.

Not just enrage a guy who is now on top of you.
 

marques

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The issue is you have to act in a manner that stops the attack.

Not just enrage a guy who is now on top of you.
Agree. What does not stop me, only makes me more violent or more determined (in self defence, sport is completely a different story). I suppose at this level we are all about the same.

There are many things that ‘work’ in training, but then in practice only make force level escalate...
 

gpseymour

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A screw-like nail?

This is an ancient thread, but since it is back up, in the Hapkido I learned, we did have some (one or two that I can recall) defenses where we raked an attackers eyes. Not ones to try to set up, but just if an opportunity presented itself by an attacker.
My nails are always short enough this is basically a poorly-executed eye massage.
 

gpseymour

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do you think a bear hug from the front is a common mode of attack? I've never seen such in all my years ! and I don't see how your going to do an upward strike from that position ?
Yeah, pretty unusual, except where someone's going for a slam. I can only think of one time I've seen someone go for one, and that was back in grade school.
 

drop bear

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Agree. What does not stop me, only makes me more violent or more determined (in self defence, sport is completely a different story). I suppose at this level we are all about the same.

There are many things that ‘work’ in training, but then in practice only make force level escalate...

There are mechanical escapes.

I think any street tactics should follow the same principles.

In the case of the eye gouge it is going to make you want to lift your elbows which is not good when you are in that position.

I have been eye gouged in fights and they are actually pretty slow to work. Especially combined with gritting your teeth, squeezing your eyes shut and wriggling your head around.
 
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gpseymour

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There are mechanical escapes.

I think any street tactics should follow the same principles.

In the case of the eye gouge it is going to make you want to lift your elbows which is not good when you are in that position.

I have been eye gouged in fights and they are actually pretty slow to work. Especially combined with gritting your teeth, squeezing your eyes shut and wriggling your head around.
Agreed. I've gone back through many of the defenses I was taught over the years, and divided them into 3 piles. Some will work, and reliably so. Some are either targets of odd opportunity or desperation moves. Some are unlikely to be useful, at all. Then I go back and add in any mechanical/structural responses to the first pile and that's what I teach. The second pile is interesting for side mentions and odd "what-if" problem solving (often add-ons to the stuff I teach regularly). The third pile never makes it back on the mats.
 

oftheherd1

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The issue is you have to act in a manner that stops the attack.

Not just enrage a guy who is now on top of you.

I don't have an argument with that. In fact I agree.

In the Hapkido I studied, we were taught to practice techniques often until they were done instinctively, then keep practicing them. At some point in such an attack I can pretty well see I am being attacked and how I can defend. I would then defend quickly.
 

oftheherd1

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My nails are always short enough this is basically a poorly-executed eye massage.

Understood. But even so it can be expected that you might abrade the surface of the eyes causing enough pain to stop or reduce the flow of the attack.
 

Dirty Dog

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The issue is you have to act in a manner that stops the attack.

Not just enrage a guy who is now on top of you.

This is true enough. But poking someone in the eye is much like kicking a guy in the wedding tackle. The effectiveness varies wildly. As with a smack in the fun sack, the response to a poke in the eye is as much psychological as physiological. Yes, both hurt, but neither is generally instantly debilitating. But in both cases, we have an almost instinctive panic reaction and many will respond as if the injury is much worse than it really is.
This being true, the most effective eye poke might very well be one which is telegraphed, trying to intentionally trigger that panic reaction. The Big Flinch.
And it's also worth remembering that neither strike is likely to be super effective against an experienced fighter. Because experienced people know that it just ain't going to be the end of the world.
 

gpseymour

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Understood. But even so it can be expected that you might abrade the surface of the eyes causing enough pain to stop or reduce the flow of the attack.
True enough. If my hands are high on his face, I'd probably try to guide a finger to the eye as a bonus. I'm just thinking there are other ways I'd prefer to make use of those hands in a lot of cases.
 

drop bear

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This is true enough. But poking someone in the eye is much like kicking a guy in the wedding tackle. The effectiveness varies wildly. As with a smack in the fun sack, the response to a poke in the eye is as much psychological as physiological. Yes, both hurt, but neither is generally instantly debilitating. But in both cases, we have an almost instinctive panic reaction and many will respond as if the injury is much worse than it really is.
This being true, the most effective eye poke might very well be one which is telegraphed, trying to intentionally trigger that panic reaction. The Big Flinch.
And it's also worth remembering that neither strike is likely to be super effective against an experienced fighter. Because experienced people know that it just ain't going to be the end of the world.

I have no issue with eye poking but I feel it should support the mechanical defense.

So a defence that uses framing or a cross face you could eye gouge and you are basically doing the same thing.

With a bear hug an eye gouge is almost the opposite of the defense.

Where I have been known to throw in a sternum rub defending bear hugs.

 
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gpseymour

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I have no issue with eye poking but I feel it should support the mechanical defense.

So a defence that uses framing or a cross face you could eye gouge and you are basically doing the same thing.

With a bear hug an eye gouge is almost the opposite of the defense.

Where I have been known to throw in a sternum rub defending bear hugs.

That's a better statement of my last post.
 

Leigh Blyth

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Straight for the balls! A true woman's way of fighting.

It's amazing what a quick flick of the eyes to the groin region can do (in the couple of occasions it's almost come to a fight).
 

Leigh Blyth

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Not sure when a quick flick of the eyes became a stare!

Having been in the position thinking this guy's gonna f-ing kill me, standing my ground and sending the subconscious message that if he touched me I was gonna castrate him seemed to work.

Never want to be in that situation again though.
 

gpseymour

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Not sure when a quick flick of the eyes became a stare!

Having been in the position thinking this guy's gonna f-ing kill me, standing my ground and sending the subconscious message that if he touched me I was gonna castrate him seemed to work.

Never want to be in that situation again though.
I doubt anyone interprets a quick glance at their crotch as a threat of castration without some other communication.
 
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