USA Coach punches Canadian in face after fight at US Open

[Daniel Sullivan]

I think I explained it more in a later post, Daniel. This is a sport, and in many sports, tempers flare and people get punched. Baseball players charge the mound when they're brushed back off the plate. Hockey players will start a fight just to give the home crowd fans a show if they're losing. Football players throw punches now and then.

It's not okay. But it's not worth prosecution. Just my opinion.

A lot of things aren't worth prosecution.

But you could make the same argument about people getting upset in a traffic altercation and attacking the other driver.

When my brand new car was totalled in 2008 by another driver who ran a red light, I was rather angry.

Now, I could have allowed my temper to flair and then have proceeded to assault the offending (and at that point, seemingly uninjured) driver.

But I didn't. I saw that the other driver was out of his car and not serioudly injured, called the police and reported an accident then called a friend to get a ride back to work then let the insurrance companies fight it out.

We all walked away from the accident, nobody went to the hospital and nobody went to jail.

Daniel

 

[Steve]

A lot of things aren't worth prosecution.

But you could make the same argument about people getting upset in a traffic altercation and attacking the other driver.

Just so that I'm very clear, my opinion is that, based on what I saw in this video, prosecution seems a little overboard in this circumstance. I was also not there, and certainly don't have all of the information.

I agree that many things aren't worth prosecution. IMO, this is one of them. I also agree that the same argument could be made in many different situations, in some cases appropriately so.

For example, if you work for me and steal $500 worth of product, my concern overall is to fire you and get my money back. Were you to agree to pay restitution, and barring any other extenuating circumstances, I probably wouldn't prosecute. Just another example of a time when a person clearly broke a law, but in my opinion, prosecution would be expensive and unnecessary.

You, however, have a different opinion, and I respect that.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

You, however, have a different opinion, and I respect that.

Not so much different as I was curious as to your rationale.

I think that a heavy fine and a lifetime ban would be in order and probably more of a penalty than jail.

But, given that we all know that assaulting someone can land you in jail, and given that taekwondo still gets bad press regarding Angel Mattos, he has to take whatever comes his way.

Daniel

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I just remembered something that happened to me a long time ago.

I was a young boy, a newspaper carrier for the Pekin Daily Times in Pekin, IL. I had just picked up my newspaper when I was approached by a long-haired 'hippy' type guy who came out of the local McGovern campaign office. He offered me a dime and asked for a newspaper. I explained to him that I only had enough papers for my route, and I could not sell him one. He threw the dime at me and took a paper out of my bicycle paper bag.

Being the same then as I am now, I went into the McGovern campaign office and demanded the paper back. He wadded it up and threw it at me. When I bent over to pick it up, he kicked me; hard. So hard that I flew off the loading dock where I was standing and landed hard on my face. I was crying and bleeding and embarrassed. He was a young adult, I was maybe 10?

I finished my newspaper route and went home. When my dad asked me what happened to my face, I told him. He took me down to the police department and demanded that the McGovern campaign worker be arrested. The police went and arrested him and brought him back to the police station.

I was taken into a line up and asked to pick him out. I was scared and the 'hippy' guys they had all looked alike to me. I kept thinking that if I chose wrong, an innocent guy would be arrested and charged. So I said I didn't know. The police told my dad that they could not do anything since the guy who kicked me denied it and I did not positively identify him.

My dad was furious and told the police that he'd take care of the problem himself once the guy was released. The police told him why wait, take care of it now. They let him into the holding cell with the hippy.

When my dad came out, he was panting and sweating and his knuckles were bleeding and his shirt was torn. The guy was laying on the floor, not moving, but moaning. There was blood on the walls and the cops were laughing and saying 'better get a hose in here!'

We went home and that was the end of it.

Now, frankly, I am not in favor of vigilante justice, as I've said before. I understand exactly how my dad felt that day, though. I'm sorry I wasn't able to identify the guy in the line up, because that would have been the better way to have handled it.

Frankly, if an adult hits a child and the adult is not engaged in self-defense or an actual sporting contest involving himself and the child, I think yes, he should be arrested and yes, he should go to jail. I'd want zero tolerance for adults hitting children (not including minor corporal punishment). Yeah, I'm thinking about how the father of that kid whose nose was bloodied and/or broken by an adult who lost his temper at the match; I'd want something done about it, and that doesn't mean a suspension or a fine.

There is no excuse for adults hitting kids like that, ever. Yeah, it's a martial arts match; but no kid there signed up to be blind-sided by an adult who wasn't even competing.

 

[hal-apino]

Time to get a bowl of popcorn; if any of this is right, we'll be reading about it for a while.

It doesn't make sense to me that the CEO would be in the role of disqualifying or even the due process. Do we really have a process that lets an uncertified official overrule a ring ref with no one else in between like a tournament director? The comment related to the Canadian team doesn't make sense to me either. Any victim of an assault/battery has the right to file a complaint, and I believe it's a crime to attempt to coerce someone to do otherwise. Is the Canadian coach someone with firsthand knowledge? Not questioning your integrity "Hal", but it would be good to know the sources on this. I wonder if the opposite side view video is a factor. What's the rest of the story?

Yes the coach had first hand knowledge, it would not be beneficial to name this coach at this time as it’s clear USAT is trying to cover up the issue and retaliation would surly be forthcoming. There will be a complaint filed and I am sure this is not the last of it.

You can read part of the letter sent to me yesterday http://www.recoiltkd.com/Canadians-not-happy-with-David-Askinas.html

This does not really surprise me as the the same person (David) has done the same thing with the Elections, bylaw changes and removal of members all with the same unprofessional, unethical behavior.
This is certainly not the first time that I have heard of "threats in reporting" Take the athlete who reported to a National Coach abuse of another female and it was reported (by the abused) that he was told to keep his F-ing mouth shut or he would not make team! Or the recent news that David is already Bragging that all the complaints will be dismissed as he has already spoke to the Judicial Committee!
This behavior does not surprise me at all in fact it is rather typical of our Leader and I expect nothing less from him!

 

[puunui]

In the last 37 years including fairly recent all of the above and not trying to be judgmental but just pointing out we fall short of the philosophy and I would put Westernization and commercialization to fault but I could be wrong about that since the worst offenders have been Korean born masters/gm so did we contaminate them or is it a myth about perfection or are we all just humans imperfect still no matter we should do our best we can. Some times the pot calling the kettle black is just to much

Are you talking about USTU/USAT and WTF events? Can you give examples of where a Korean born instructor attacked either another Korean born instructor or a referee? I have heard of one national incident but not at a WTF International Event.

 

[puunui]

I was also told by a Canadian coach that Keal Pinto was disqualified by David Askinas after he tried to have the center Ref do it and she refused. Must be the reason they have posted Monday's results this morning but still not Sunday!

I was also told that David told Pinto if he filed charges that the Canadian Team would not be welcomed back to US Open. They are not to happy and are filing a complaint with WTF on David Askinas. If the coach is the brother of said coach in Florida he is also an IR, I would hope that the WTF strips his credentials as well as the USAT from coaching.

David Askinas is out of control.

 

[terryl965]

USAT or should I say David is doing nothing about it, they simply want this to go away. It is a shame they will allow this person to coach at events, if he is any ring with any of my players I will ask for him to be removed.

On a side note I heard that the player is doing fine is in good spirits, I am glad it did not change his mind about TKD....

 

[IcemanSK]

Are you talking about USTU/USAT and WTF events? Can you give examples of where a Korean born instructor attacked either another Korean born instructor or a referee? I have heard of one national incident but not at a WTF International Event.

I can recall a state tournament (perhaps pre-USTU days in the early 80's) when two Korean-born instructors taking their dispute over "who's student won" outside in the parking lot. We never went back to that event again. I can't say that is was because of that display by the 2 instructors, tho. My SBN was not one of those in the dispute.

 

[d1jinx]

Just found the video from the other side of the mat (I thought there was to be no video taping on the floor)..

well, that video was recorded by the referees camera. There is usually 1 at every ring. they use it to record the referees performance and critique any events or incidents. It is more of a tool used for the referees learning and advancement.

Oooops, did I just tell who video'd it?

well, if you dont believe me, look at the original video and you will see the tripod by the score table. It is placed there by the higher up ref's. (usually true)

I actually think its a good idea and useful tool in referee developement.

 

[d1jinx]

.

I was also told by a Canadian coach that Keal Pinto was disqualified by David Askinas after he tried to have the center Ref do it and she refused. Must be the reason they have posted Monday's results this morning but still not Sunday! .

Ok.... I hope I dont choke to death in my sleep, BUT I ACTUALLY AGREE WITH HIM. Both should have been disqualified.

I dont agree with the threat tactics or other way it may have been handled, but that was a DELIBERATE punch to the face injuring the opponent. RED SHOULD HAVE BEEN DISQUALIFIED.

GOOD.

 

[hal-apino]

Ok.... I hope I dont choke to death in my sleep, BUT I ACTUALLY AGREE WITH HIM. Both should have been disqualified.

I dont agree with the threat tactics or other way it may have been handled, but that was a DELIBERATE punch to the face injuring the opponent. RED SHOULD HAVE BEEN DISQUALIFIED.

GOOD.

That could be true and perhaps even what should have happened, however it is not up to David to decide that, it is not his place or position. We have rules and if we allow David to step in and take control and change the rules in place then we have real issues. I can name off the top of my head two females that have punched to the face , wonder why they were not disqualified by David!
Is David going to follow this same procedure with all Punches to the face?

Even if the center Ref did not apply the rule, we have rules in place to deal with that, and again that is not David stepping in!

Yes David is out of Control and once again has taken a bad situation and made it worse!
If both had been disqualified following proper procedures then so be it, that is not what happened!

 

[hal-apino]

David Askinas is out of control.

Ya think

 

[puunui]

That could be true and perhaps even what should have happened, however it is not up to David to decide that, it is not his place or position. We have rules and if we allow David to step in and take control and change the rules in place then we have real issues. I can name off the top of my head two females that have punched to the face , wonder why they were not disqualified by David! Is David going to follow this same procedure with all Punches to the face?

I think there is enough evidence out there for the Board to fire David Askinas for cause. He tampers in matters that go far beyond his area of responsibility. He and by extension USAT, acts as if he/they answer to no one.

 

[d1jinx]

. He and by extension USAT, acts as if he/they answer to no one.

so far, they don't AND haven't. thats the problem.

 

[hal-apino]

I think there is enough evidence out there for the Board to fire David Askinas for cause. He tampers in matters that go far beyond his area of responsibility. He and by extension USAT, acts as if he/they answer to no one.

Do we have a board is the question? I am not certain that the board could take a vote at this point as their terms have been expired. How does that work?

 

[RSweet]

Do we have a board is the question? I am not certain that the board could take a vote at this point as their terms have been expired. How does that work?

By the bylaws, those with expired terms remain in position until replaced. By delaying the elections, they have extended their terms. I was told by a former board member, at one time the plan was to postpone elections until June or later of 2011 - this was back in October this was discussed, according to him. As long as the current people remain in place, unless the Attorney General or the USOC demand his removal, he and herb are secure.

 

[hal-apino]

By the bylaws, those with expired terms remain in position until replaced. By delaying the elections, they have extended their terms. I was told by a former board member, at one time the plan was to postpone elections until June or later of 2011 - this was back in October this was discussed, according to him. As long as the current people remain in place, unless the Attorney General or the USOC demand his removal, he and herb are secure.

Well I guess its time to write the board and demand his termination before my membership is terminated

 

[Dictator Tot]

That seems obvious by the attention Kael is getting to his nose right after the coach punched him.

In the video the person on the ground recieving attention is the US fighter who was punched by the canadian. After the canadian is punched by the US coach he just walks to his side of the ring.

The first Questionable kick to the head: it looks unclear if the ref official stopped the match, alot of coaches train there fighters not to stop till the ref says stop. If the step out of bounds, if they turn there back hit them, fights not over till the ref says stop. i could see how maybe the american fighter was unclear in the heat of the moment if the match was stopped and saw his chance. If the ref did say stop then it would warrant a kyong-go or a gamjeom. im not defending the kick but i find it understandable and i have seen things like that before.

the spin heel kick at the ended that prompted the canadian fighter to punch his opponent in the head looks to have been thrown right as the ref was trying to stop the match. i think that was a massive over reaction by canada.

but all in all the coach should atleast be banned from all future USAT events. that was unacceptable.

but thats just my 2cents.