ballen0351
Sr. Grandmaster
Why is it our job to stop crime in Mexico?
US guns flooding into Mexico
- Thread starter James Kovacich
- Start date
Why is it our job to stop crime in Mexico?
Big Don
Sr. Grandmaster
If we did, we'd be accused of wanting an EMPIRE. If we don't, the stupid will blame us for it.
I don't have any issue with certain legalized drugs, the problem is that no one is going to legalize heroin or meth or will be able to provide an alternative with a comparable high, so you will always have an market for the product.
Has anyone considered that obama and holder might still be sending guns down to Mexico. Think about it. They did not have any real consequences for getting caught doing it the first time, despite the deaths of 2 federal agents and over 300 Mexican citizens...and only a few low level flunkies at Justice department either lost their jobs or were demoted...you would have to look that up. So what would be the reason to not send more guns down there, especially with this new anti-gun push. It is his last term, the Republicans don't have the guts to impeach him, they already held holder in contempt....they very well could have sent more guns down there again...
OP
OP
I say secure the border too. Anybody that has ever crossed the US/Mexico border knows we have to wait in line for a long time. When I crossed it took over 2 hours to get back in the US. If we don't start addressing our borders better, it will be like that going both ways.
OP
OP
What???
The "crimes" are on "our" side of the border trying to smuggle the guns into Mexico. How about we catch the criminals here first! 
I"m really surprised by your posts being LE and all. Lately your logic is sounding less like LE and more like Bill and Don! :whip1:
OP
OP
Are you for real. We are an EMPIRE. We are THE EMPIRE. If we are going to go around the world acting like the world police, then we'd better well do it in our own backyard! You guy crack me up. :whip:
ballen0351
Sr. Grandmaster
What???
I"m really surprised by your posts being LE and all. Lately your logic is sounding less like LE and more like Bill and Don! :whip1:
If the gun is legally owned in the US its not a crime until it crosses the border.
If its not legally owned here then Its kinda like the loud drunk at the bar that cusses at the cops over and over but as hes cussing hes walking home. Im not going to mess with him if hes leaving. Same with the guns if they are leaving then they are not going to be my problem anymore. Sure its a poor attitude but I got my hands full dealing with the problems right here. If I find them fine Ill do what I got to do but I wouldnt make it a priorty like your making it out to be.
Uncle
Blue Belt
Actually in a lot of cases the US does what Rome did. You invade a country and install or allow or coerce the election of someone favorable to your agenda. They are then expected to explicitly or covertly follow your lead. These are not labelled as conquered territories but "America's allies" much like "friends of Rome."
OP
OP
It's a felony to "attempt" to take them into Mexico.
ballen0351
Sr. Grandmaster
Is it? I have no idea I dont work in that type of Law Enforcement.
If your right then its already a crime and if the warehouse is as full as you say then they are doig the best they can what more do you want them too do?
Can you cite this US law? Usually laws involving transport of well, anything fall onto the country you are transporting too. If I take legal marijuana from Washington State into Canada, the law that I will get prosecuted under is Canadian law.
OP
OP
No I can't but I've been watching Border War before going to work and I'm sure I heard it there. If it wasn't illegal how could they make the arrest and consficate the guns on this side of the border? Also guns are illegal in Mexico. A single gun on the Mexico side can get someone a stiff prison sentence.
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OP
OP
I googled it but the punishment didn't seem to come up onlynthat smuggling guns into Mexico was illegal.
http://www.ice.gov/firearms-explosives-smuggling/
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http://www.ice.gov/firearms-explosives-smuggling/
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OP
OP
I just stumbled on this. It reports that the George Bush administration "walked" guns over into Mexico. Maybe we found the big guy who signed off on the deal.
http://www.mainjustice.com/2011/10/...xico-during-george-w-bush-administration-too/
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OP
OP
WOW, that post earned me a negative rep point!
This is threir response. "words have meanings"
cheap shot...Sorry, the program under Bush was called "Wide Reciever," and the one under obama and holder is "Fast and Furious," and there are major differences, the major one being when a couple guns "walked," across the border under Wide Reciever, they realized what a bad idea it was and stopped the program...obama and holder sent 2500 fully automatic weapons into Mexico with no way to track them...because they wanted to jump start the gun control debate...
Here are two looks at the differences between Bush's operation and obama's criminally negligent one...
http://reasonedpolitics.blogspot.com/2012/02/wide-receiver-vs-fast-and-furious.html
A
Read more: http://conservativebyte.com/2012/06/wide-receiver-vs-fast-and-furious/#ixzz2J7OW5kvN
Here are two looks at the differences between Bush's operation and obama's criminally negligent one...
http://reasonedpolitics.blogspot.com/2012/02/wide-receiver-vs-fast-and-furious.html
http://conservativebyte.com/2012/06/wide-receiver-vs-fast-and-furious/
Wide Receiver was an attempt to build a case against gun smugglers and the drug cartels, to find out who they were, where they are. The purpose of Fast and Furious was to build a case against the Second Amendment. In a nutshell, Wide Receiver began in 2005. It involved four hundred guns. All of the weapons in Wide Receiver had RFID trackers installed in them, and they were actively tracked. Only the Phoenix ATF and DOJ were involved. The Mexican government was kept fully informed. They were an active participant. In Wide Receiver, the ATF agents tried to track the guns using radio devices and aircraft. They wanted to find out where the guns ended up, into the hands of which cartels and where they were, so that a case could be made. It was an effort to track these people to find them, locate them.
The Bush administration, as part of Wide Receiver, notified the Mexican government when arms and drug smugglers were crossing. When the guns were being walked across the border or when they had been purchased legally, being taken back to Mexico, the Mexican government was notified.
At least 1,400 arrests were made as part of Wide Receiver. Now, once ATF found out the smugglers were disabling the tracking devices, the RFID tracking devices that were planted in the guns, they ripped them out and then the guns were lost. So the program was shut down in October of 2007. Once the bad guys discovered the tracking devices, the program was ended, in 2007. Ended.
Now, here’s Fast and Furious by contrast.
Fast and Furious began in October of 2009. Obama is in his tenth month. Wide Receiver doesn’t exist. It’d been shut down for two years. Fast and Furious involved over 2,000 guns. Wide Receiver was 1,400 guns. Roughly. No tracking devices were planted in the Fast and Furious guns. The regime didn’t care where they ended up. There were no tracking devices. No effort was made to track them. No helicopters. There was no on-the-ground surveillance of the straw purchasers. None of it. The guns were sold, they were walked across the border, and that was it. Four federal agencies were involved in maybe as many as 10 cities in five states.
In contrast to Wide Receiver, the Mexican government was not notified the program even existed.
They did not use tracking devices or aircraft to try to find and track the smugglers.
The local ATF field agents were ordered not to follow the straw purchasers.
Fast and Furious is as bad as everything you have conjured it to be in your mind. Wide Receiver has nothing in common, other than guns crossing the border. That’s it. Federal agents, furthermore — are you following all this, Snerdley? — federal agents were not allowed to interdict the guns and they even ran interference for the smugglers with local law enforcement on multiple occasions to make sure those guns made it across the border.
A
Read more: http://conservativebyte.com/2012/06/wide-receiver-vs-fast-and-furious/#ixzz2J7OW5kvN
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OP
OP
So your saying even though the this process started under Bush, Obama is guilty because the guns were lost???
I'm sorry my friend, Obama didn't doing any gunwalking. It was the ATF that blundered this, the same ATF that Bush used. ATF at times seems to be a black eye for law enforcement.http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/10/05/earlyshow/main20115824.shtml?tag=contentBody;cbsCarousel
Attkisson asked, "When you look back and think in hindsight knowing what we know now - that all those guns were going on the street - what do you think about?"
Detty said, "It really makes me sick."
Attkisson noted that all this happened under the Bush administration - three years before the start of "Fast and Furious," the better-known ATF operation under the Obama administration that has come under scrutiny . "Fast and Furious" allegedly let thousands of weapons fall into the hands of Mexican drug cartels, and is now the subject of two investigations.
The "Fast and Furious" tactic of letting guns "walk" was exposed after Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was murdered last December and at least two assault rifles from "Fast and Furious" were found at the scene.
As for its predecessor, "Wide Receiver,": prosecutors finally, quietly, rounded up seven suspects last fall. No cartel leaders, just buyers who - critics say - should never have been allowed to put even one weapon on the street, let alone operate for years.
You need to read my post a little more carefully...
The Bush program was ended in 2007 because they couldn't control it...that was the quality that must have attracted obama and holder...
The guns weren't "lost," they were intentionally flooded into Mexico so they could be found at arrest sites and could then be used to blame the U.S. gun market...jump starting obama's anti-gun program.
The Bush program was ended in 2007 because they couldn't control it...that was the quality that must have attracted obama and holder...
The guns weren't "lost," they were intentionally flooded into Mexico so they could be found at arrest sites and could then be used to blame the U.S. gun market...jump starting obama's anti-gun program.
Found it, the Arms Export Control Act, basically you need a license to export firearms.
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