US guns flooding into Mexico

[James Kovacich]

I was watching the TV show Border Wars and today they focused on the illegal weapons being confiscated at the border heading into Mexico. There many handguns and rifles including AK47's and 50 Cals. They were moslty new and never fired and some already converted to automatic.

They showed the inside of their East Coast (undisclosed location) warehouse, it was massive. They destoyed 2800 weapons and that amount was nothing compared to what is still in the warehouse.

This is a major problem!

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[billc]

Write to obama and ask him to stop giving those guns to the bad guys...that will go a long way to solving the problem...

 

[Big Don]

I was watching the TV show Border Wars and today they focused on the illegal weapons being confiscated at the border heading into Mexico. There many handguns and rifles including AK47's and 50 Cals. They were moslty new and never fired and some already converted to automatic.

They showed the inside of their East Coast (undisclosed location) warehouse, it was massive. They destoyed 2800 weapons and that amount was nothing compared to what is still in the warehouse.

This is a major problem!

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Maybe you should read up on Fast and Furious.

 

[James Kovacich]

I'm familar with the ATF flub. This has nothing to do with that. None of these guns were a part of that Govt/LE "walkover." You guys need to take these issues seriously. If these problems could be fixed there would be less of an uproar against guns. Combined, the problems are compounding. I don't see Congress passing any bans, not by their gavel. But some things have to get done.

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[ballen0351]

I'm familar with the ATF flub. This has nothing to do with that. None of these guns were a part of that Govt/LE "walkover." You guys need to take these issues seriously. If these problems could be fixed there would be less of an uproar against guns. Combined, the problems are compounding. I don't see Congress passing any bans, not by their gavel. But some things have to get done.

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Well when they stop sending us their cocaine and gang members maybe we will stop sending them guns

 

[James Kovacich]

The US is the largest consumer for drugs in the world. We, our country, created an environment that spawned the inevitable, the cartels.

I really didn't expect this. Y'all have a choice. Be a part of the solution, or be a part of the consequence. If y'all (Republicans) keep sticking your heads in the sand for these issues. Others (Democrats) will be the solution.

Y'all claim this and that but your ideals are fadiing. Wake up before it becomes an all Democrat solution. After that, all you'll have is talk, which y'all are really good at.

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[Blindside]

Right, well funded drug cartels who have a proven ability to pass products through multiple international shipping routes and countries will have a problem obtaining weapons if the US magically cut off the supply of weapons to them....

Look at the evidence of these same drug cartels (founded by ex-military personnel like the Zetas) having much heavier weaponry than single-fire rifles like RPGs, tanks, fragmentation grenades, and figure out just how hard it would be for them to acquire a crate of AKs if they really wanted them?

The US State department has approved direct sales of ARs to the Mexican Government, over 10K of them in 2009 and they stopped disclosing how many they approved in 2010 and 2011. Some of those (actually more than "some") have have wound up in cartels hands. Oh, and this doesn't include the thousands of ex-military and police who have joined the cartels, members who took their guns with them when they did so.

I'm not saying that the illegal gun traffic is something to be ignored, but even if we managed to eliminate it, the problem of armed drug cartels would not go away.

 

[Blindside]

The US is the largest consumer for drugs in the world. We, our country, created an environment that spawned the inevitable, the cartels.

I really didn't expect this. Y'all have a choice. Be a part of the solution, or be a part of the consequence. If y'all (Republicans) keep sticking your heads in the sand for these issues. Others (Democrats) will be the solution.

Y'all claim this and that but your ideals are fadiing. Wake up before it becomes an all Democrat solution. After that, all you'll have is talk, which y'all are really good at.

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Quick, what is the solution to the issue that the US is the largest consumer of recreational drugs in the world?

 

[James Kovacich]

Quick, what is the solution to the issue that the US is the largest consumer of recreational drugs in the world?

I didn't say I had a solution. I thought this thread by lead to real dialogue but I was mistaken. Ballen made the comment about the cocaine coming in and I responded pointing out we are the number 1 market in the world.

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[James Kovacich]

Right, well funded drug cartels who have a proven ability to pass products through multiple international shipping routes and countries will have a problem obtaining weapons if the US magically cut off the supply of weapons to them....

Look at the evidence of these same drug cartels (founded by ex-military personnel like the Zetas) having much heavier weaponry than single-fire rifles like RPGs, tanks, fragmentation grenades, and figure out just how hard it would be for them to acquire a crate of AKs if they really wanted them?

The US State department has approved direct sales of ARs to the Mexican Government, over 10K of them in 2009 and they stopped disclosing how many they approved in 2010 and 2011. Some of those (actually more than "some") have have wound up in cartels hands. Oh, and this doesn't include the thousands of ex-military and police who have joined the cartels, members who took their guns with them when they did so.

I'm not saying that the illegal gun traffic is something to be ignored, but even if we managed to eliminate it, the problem of armed drug cartels would not go away.

There's a big differance between selling guns to the Mexican Govt and smuggling guns accross the border. One is selling to a Govt that has the intention of fighting the cartels. The other is turning a blind eye to guns going straight to the cartels.

These guys blaming Obama for the ATF losing those weapons is wrong to. It dosent matter how high up the ladder it went as far as giving the go ahead for fast and furious. Not Obama nor anyone in the Whitehouse walked those guns into Mexico and lossed them. That would be a branch of law enforcement. We have many problems that are compounding. The "party of no" needs to step up and help. If they don't, they wont like the outcome and it will be there own fault for not doing enough. Look closely here. Who is on offense and who is on defense?

I'm not against the gunshows. I bought a gun from one before and I plan to again. But it dosent have to be so easy especially in the border towns. There are a lot of things that need to be addressed. If the 2 parties don't work together, somebodies rights are going to get trashed, at least in their eyes they will.

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[oftheherd1]

There's a big differance between selling guns to the Mexican Govt and smuggling guns accross the border. One is selling to a Govt that has the intention of fighting the cartels. The other is turning a blind eye to guns going straight to the cartels.

These guys blaming Obama for the ATF losing those weapons is wrong to. It dosent matter how high up the ladder it went as far as giving the go ahead for fast and furious. Not Obama nor anyone in the Whitehouse walked those guns into Mexico and lossed them. That would be a branch of law enforcement. We have many problems that are compounding. The "party of no" needs to step up and help. If they don't, they wont like the outcome and it will be there own fault for not doing enough. Look closely here. Who is on offense and who is on defense?

I'm not against the gunshows. I bought a gun from one before and I plan to again. But it dosent have to be so easy especially in the border towns. There are a lot of things that need to be addressed. If the 2 parties don't work together, somebodies rights are going to get trashed, at least in their eyes they will.

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Blindside's assertion that guns sold to the Mexican government may be true. I don't know since he provided no links to anything that would support it. But it wouldn't surprise me. If we find it is true, and in significant amounts, is just another way to smuggle and should be stopped. I don't mean the US gov't is trying to smuggle guns to the cartels, but that if that is the ultimate result, we should stop being a part of it. Again, I don't know if statements above that Mexican gov't soldiers are taking their guns to join cartels is true. Frankly, it seems a little far fetched on a large scale.

Nor can Pres Obama be absolved of blame. I could give you he might not know about it ahead of time; he may not have. But it is obvious he has tried to facilitate a cover up. That you may remember was the big problem Nixon had. Nixon probably didn't know of the breakin ahead of time, but he certainly went to great and illegal lengths to try and cover it up. Now nobody can ever know what level of US government law enforcement approved such a fiasco. Nor will anybody be censured for such a poor, if not illegal, decision.

I don't have a problem with gun shows either. But I am also open to background checks of some sort prior to an individual being able to buy guns. We have the technology to do that. But we need to enlarge our databases to include those with known mental instabilities, not just known criminals or suspected terrorists. What do you think the chances of that being supported by either republicans or democrats?

 

[Blindside]

This is a quick reference for some of the direct sales (approved by the State Dep) to the Mexican Government.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500202_162-57337289/legal-u.s-gun-sales-to-mexico-arming-cartels/

Fun quote out of that article:

The State Department audits only a tiny sample - less than 1 percent of sales - but the results are disturbing: In 2009, more than a quarter (26 percent) of the guns sold to the region that includes Mexico were "diverted" into the wrong hands, or had other "unfavorable" results.

 

[ballen0351]

The US is the largest consumer for drugs in the world. We, our country, created an environment that spawned the inevitable, the cartels.

I really didn't expect this. Y'all have a choice. Be a part of the solution, or be a part of the consequence. If y'all (Republicans) keep sticking your heads in the sand for these issues. Others (Democrats) will be the solution.

Y'all claim this and that but your ideals are fadiing. Wake up before it becomes an all Democrat solution. After that, all you'll have is talk, which y'all are really good at.

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So if Mexico holds no blame in drugs
Coming here why is it the US blamed for guns go there?

Secondly this is a Mexico law enforcement problem not a US Republican or Democrat problem. We dont make laws for mexico

 

[Grenadier]

I was watching the TV show Border Wars and today they focused on the illegal weapons being confiscated at the border heading into Mexico. There many handguns and rifles including AK47's and 50 Cals. They were moslty new and never fired and some already converted to automatic.

They showed the inside of their East Coast (undisclosed location) warehouse, it was massive. They destoyed 2800 weapons and that amount was nothing compared to what is still in the warehouse.

This is a major problem!

Agreed.

Now, all you have to do is stop the illegal weapons smugglers from committing their crimes. I'm quite sure that you are aware of the fact that the so-called "68% of guns recovered in Mexico are from the US" stat only applied to guns they knew came from the USA and could be traced.

As for the rest of them that came from other foreign sources (the overwhelming majority)? Those were never traced, or included in the "68%" statistic, else the already weak assertion would have been ridiculed even more.

 

[cdunn]

Quick, what is the solution to the issue that the US is the largest consumer of recreational drugs in the world?

Let Pfizer, Johnson & Johnson, etc sell low-risk recreational drugs as competition. The Zetas and their ilk will stop when we stop buying.

 

[crushing]

Well when they stop sending us their cocaine and gang members maybe we will stop sending them guns

This won't stop as long as the politician friendly Banksters continue to get a cut of the action as they help facilitate such transactions. Feel free to google 'us banks mexican drug money'

 

[billc]

Yeah, this might be part of the problem...

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2013/01/20/Mexico-Authorities-Detain-158-Police-Officers

Authorities say 158 local police officers have been detained in northern Mexico for alleged ties to organised crime. Al Jazeera's Adam Raney reports from Mexico City.

 

[James Kovacich]

So if Mexico holds no blame in drugs
Coming here why is it the US blamed for guns go there?

Secondly this is a Mexico law enforcement problem not a US Republican or Democrat problem. We dont make laws for mexico

Your trying to compare apples and oranges, 2 problems require 2 solutions.

I didn't say Mexico wad absolved. Did you not read the initial post of how many guns that are being consfiscated on our side of the border going into Mexico?

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[James Kovacich]

Yeah, this might be part of the problem...

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2013/01/20/Mexico-Authorities-Detain-158-Police-Officers

Very true! That's even more reason why we need to "try" harder to stop the flow of guns south. The "compounding" fits into all these posts.

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[ballen0351]

Your trying to compare apples and oranges, 2 problems require 2 solutions.

I didn't say Mexico wad absolved. Did you not read the initial post of how many guns that are being consfiscated on our side of the border going into Mexico?

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Right but if its the US consumer that keeps the drugs flowing this way isnt the mexican consumer keeping the uns flowing that way?

Heres a good idea lets secure the border. Like for real secure it not fake vitural fences


whats your plan?