Upper body in Striking and Grappling

[SFC JeffJ]

Would it be a fair assessment that ground grappling requires more upper body strength than striking. I got to thinking about this after hearing one of the guys in my class go on about how there is no real technique in ground work. That it all comes down to strength. Now I disagree with that, but it seems to me that upper body strength might come into play more.

Thoughts?

Jeff

 

[Andrew Green]

Well, it depends. Both upper and lower body strength can be used to good effect, but which is more relevant depends on what is going on. Grappling is pretty much full body.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

I was just thinking upper body might be more important on the ground than standing as it is more difficult to get your weight behind your techniques on the ground. Especially when you find yourself on your back.

Jeff

 

[Andrew Green]

In which case you are using your legs to defend yourself and control your opponent

 

[SFC JeffJ]

In which case you are using your legs to defend yourself and control your opponent

Very true, yet you still will be trying to lay on techniques with your hands and arms.

 

[Robert Lee]

It helps BUT you have to have ground skills Look At the Gracies And others Not large And really strong BUT skilled And have endurence.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

It helps BUT you have to have ground skills Look At the Gracies And others Not large And really strong BUT skilled And have endurence.

Definitely. Being stronger always helps. Strong with good technique is a heck of a lot better though.

 

[Andrew Green]

Very true, yet you still will be trying to lay on techniques with your hands and arms.

There are many stories of Rickson tucking both hands in his belt and rolling with people, still able to tap them out.

From the bottom hips and legs are what make most things work, arms help, but if you are muscling things with your arms from the bottom it's going to be a long fight for you

 

[SFC JeffJ]

I'm not trying to discount the need for lower body strength in grappling, nor am I trying to say only strength matters. It just seems to me in my experience (lots of stand up and a good dose of grappling) that upper body strength comes into play more while on the ground. I am not saying that it's a replacement for good technique.

Jeff

 

[MJS]

Would it be a fair assessment that ground grappling requires more upper body strength than striking. I got to thinking about this after hearing one of the guys in my class go on about how there is no real technique in ground work. That it all comes down to strength. Now I disagree with that, but it seems to me that upper body strength might come into play more.

Thoughts?

Jeff

I can see this turning into a strength vs technique debate.

IMO, strength is important, but its also important to have technique as well. I've rolled with guys that loved to out muscle me. I'd relax, go with the flow and eventually they'd tire themselves out.


Mike

 

[Bigshadow]

I'd relax, go with the flow and eventually they'd tire themselves out.

Very good point! I would have to agree! When someone is relaxed and just goes with the flow on the ground, it is very difficult to control them. That would be my approach on the ground.

 

[Lisa]

I can see this turning into a strength vs technique debate.

IMO, strength is important, but its also important to have technique as well. I've rolled with guys that loved to out muscle me. I'd relax, go with the flow and eventually they'd tire themselves out.


Mike

Ain't that the truth. Take any newbie to grappling, when they have no skill, they use all muscle and get tired really easily.

 

[matt.m]

Dude in an art like judo you better have a strong back, and traps otherwise you are more likely to get beat than not. For that matter, the best judo players I have ever met had tremendous hamstring strength as well.

 

[Tez3]

My daughter trains MMA with us, she's also a jockey (five foot tall, 98lbs) she cracked the ribs of Brazilian fighter Jean Silva, who has fought in Pride, by going into flying guard and squeezing his ribs with her legs. We heard his ribs creak, we admittedly were in stitches laughing! I don't know whether to say that's down to strength or technique lol!

 

[still learning]

Hello, Mashiko Kimura (the Judo God) pre-world war. Was consider unbeatable,even had a match with Helio Grace- ended in a draw but Kimura look like the winner overall.

Mr Kimura use do 900 push-ups a day and train for 9 hours everyday, They say as soon as he grap you...you were flying/thrown quickly.

Upper body strenght(like the comments above) is better anytime for you. In Judo the more you practice..you will find techniques will work more for you...off course your body becomes stronger too (including upper body)

When grappling (endurance plays a big part as in strenght training).

In Judo those who have better techniques will always beat the stronger opponent.

Remember anytime you can off balance a person...upper strenght means nothing.........Aloha

 

[Rook]

Hello, Mashiko Kimura (the Judo God) pre-world war. Was consider unbeatable,even had a match with Helio Grace- ended in a draw but Kimura look like the winner overall.

No. Kimura actually won and won decisively. He broke several ribs and both of Helio's forearm bones before Carlos threw in the towel.

Mr Kimura use do 900 push-ups a day and train for 9 hours everyday, They say as soon as he grap you...you were flying/thrown quickly.

The guys was in amazing shape. He did between 800 and 1200 pushups on normal days in one stretch and had apparently done over 3000 at a stretch (there is actually a video of this I am told though I'm not going to sit there and count). He practiced throws against trees and was banned from several parks in Tokyo because he was uprooting trees. He did 300 karate chops per hand and a couple hundred punches also on trees each day and cross trained with Mas Oyama. Heck, Kimura only lost four matches in his life and they were all against 4th and 5th dans at a time when there only were 5 dan ranks.

Upper body strenght(like the comments above) is better anytime for you. In Judo the more you practice..you will find techniques will work more for you...off course your body becomes stronger too (including upper body)

When grappling (endurance plays a big part as in strenght training).

In Judo those who have better techniques will always beat the stronger opponent.

Remember anytime you can off balance a person...upper strenght means nothing.........Aloha

 

[searcher]

I'm not trying to discount the need for lower body strength in grappling, nor am I trying to say only strength matters. It just seems to me in my experience (lots of stand up and a good dose of grappling) that upper body strength comes into play more while on the ground. I am not saying that it's a replacement for good technique.

Jeff

You are really talking about two types of strength. Striking requires a snapping type of power. Grappling requires more of a pushing type of power. Strength is required for both, but is utilized in different ways.

 

[Rook]

You are really talking about two types of strength. Striking requires a snapping type of power. Grappling requires more of a pushing type of power. Strength is required for both, but is utilized in different ways.

Thats a kinda broad brush to paint with. Some striking is not done with a snap - Japanese Jujutsu and certain kung fu systems often use punches without snap because it makes it easier to flow into their throws and manipulations. There have been some real flamefests on TCMA boards about whether Tai Chi motions should snap as well, with most people saying it should not. Also, hips can and do snap on the ground, most frequently in guard => mount transitions.

 

[cfr]

I got to thinking about this after hearing one of the guys in my class go on about how there is no real technique in ground work. That it all comes down to strength.

I think that guy is on crack! :bs1: I dont have much groundwork experience, but the experience that I do have is mostly with a guy that I outweigh by 60 pounds and have far more strength than. While my stregth does help no doubt, he is definately able to tap me out more than I can tap him out. He obviously isn't doing that by being bigger/ stronger, he is doing by using his technique.