Uniform stance vs. Mirror stance

[Kung Fu Wang]

- In uniform stance (you and your opponent have the same side forward), your opponent's powerful back leg roundhouse kick can only hit on your back.
- In mirror stance (you and your opponent have different side forward), your opponent's powerful back leg roundhouse kick can hit on your chest. Of course your powerful back leg roundhouse kick can hit on your opponent's chest too.

People like to stay in uniform stance to avoid that back leg roundhouse kick. People also like to stay in mirror stance to take advantage on his back leg roundhouse kick too.

For striking art, is mirror stance more aggressive than uniform stance?

Your thought?

Uniform stance:

Mirror stance:

 

[JowGaWolf]

I'm a mirror stance guy. i use the mirror stance to take away my opponent's option to do round house. A mirror stance allows me to move 45 degrees forward away from the rotation of a round house kick and beyond the maximum impact range for a round house kick. A mirror stance also allows me to sneak in sweeps and foot hooks.

If the person is right handed then it allows me to fight with power side foward while my opponent's power side is far from me in comparison. Mirror stance also allows me to cut better angles. Because of how Jow Ga shuffles. Mirror stance is works really well. I can so fight Uniform stance equally well, and will do so when techniques require the use of a Uniform stance.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

How do you avoid roundhouse kick?

Your opponent's left back leg can still sweep the inside of your leading left leg.

 

[JowGaWolf]

How do you avoid roundhouse kick?

Your opponent's left back leg can still sweep the inside of your leading left leg.

While that is possible, it's very unlikely. Like everything else certain sweeps need specific set ups in order work. You could spar with someone for 5 hours and never get a chance to use that type of sweep on them. There's nothing that stops me from moving my foot backwards or switching stances, or cutting a 45 degree angle to your outside, or giving you a front kick with my lead leg, or shuffling backwards ,go giving you a side kick. If the person has no interest in grabbing you as shown in the video then it could be a really long wait before you get the opportunity to use such as sweep.

When is why I like to do the sweeps and foot hooks that I use. The sweeps I use don't require you to grab me or me to grab you. The only thing that I really need is for my opponent to forget about his legs, so that I can take them.

If you faced a Boxer hoping to get that sweep in, then you'll eat tons of punches before you get close enough to grab him to use that specific sweep. It's the same with kickers as well.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Both ways are good. Each allows access to targets when footwork and different combinations are employed. IMO training should include fighting against an opponent in any stance. While we all have a favorite side (I think that's normal), we should be competent fighting from both leads against either lead from the opponent.

Regardless of which lead the opponent has, I will switch my lead several times. When I present a stance to the opponent, he will spend time and concentration to evaluate his opportunities and make some plan for attack. By changing my stance, that effort is wasted, an attack forestalled, and a second of confusion by the opponent is the result. This keeps him off balance and gives me a good window for attack. Sometimes, simply changing sides is an excellent defensive maneuver, and in essence, sets up a counter to an attack that hasn't even been launched.

Now, Joe Lewis threw, and landed, his lead right side thrust kick against a talented opponent using a left lead. The opponent switched leads (not out of any strategy as described in the above paragraph, but because his left ribs were cracked.) Now facing a right lead opponent, Lewis kept his original stance and landed the exact same move, cracking the opponent's right ribs.

I think it's important not to concern yourself too much with this issue - Practice for varied situations. Be comfortable no matter what the opponent presents. There is always a path.

 

[wab25]

I think it's important not to concern yourself too much with this issue - Practice for varied situations. Be comfortable no matter what the opponent presents.

I agree, however, I want to point out that while you should be able to fight with either side leading and you should be able to switch... you should not let your opponent dictate your stance. Many people train to use uniform stance, with other people who like uniform stance. They are taught to switch, in order to get the other guy to switch, to buy time. These guys are fun to play with. They switch, you switch... they switch, you don't... they will pause and actually wait for you to switch and then get confused when you don't... then they get really tentative because they don't really know whats going on now. Plus, once you realize you have one of these guys for your opponent... you can really set them up...

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

They switch, you switch...

If my opponent switches, I won't switch. I will never switch sides. But I train 2 sets of skill, one set for uniform stance, one set for mirror stance. This way, I can make the fight simply.

In wrestling, you have

- rooting leg, and
- attacking leg.

Also you have

- major hand, and
- minor hand.

For example, I have never seen anyone who's rooting leg can do foot sweep, leg lift, leg twist, leg spring, leg block, inner hook, outer hook, ... as good as his attacking leg can.

No matter how good you may shoot your hand gun, your one hand is always better than the other hand. In a life and death situation, even a small difference can mean a lot.

My teacher told me that there was a Chinese wrestler who liked to wear just one shoes on his rooting leg. His attacking leg only had a white socks. He would wrestle with his opponent with only one leg standing. No matter what his opponent might do, he would flip his opponent with his attacking leg. After an outdoor wrestling match, he could show to audience that his attacking leg socks was still clean.

 

[wab25]

If my opponent switches, I won't switch. I will never switch sides.

In my example, the reason I switch the first time, is to set them up... make them feel comfortable, that I am going to be what they expect. Its a set up.

Otherwise I agree with you, that you should not let the other guy dictate what your stance is.

In my set up example, the other is not dictating my stance, even though I first switch when he does. I am dictating that, because I am using it to set him up.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

In my example, the reason I switch the first time, is to set them up... make them feel comfortable, that I am going to be what they expect. Its a set up.

Otherwise I agree with you, that you should not let the other guy dictate what your stance is.

In my set up example, the other is not dictating my stance, even though I first switch when he does. I am dictating that, because I am using it to set him up.

In tournament competition, people do that all the time.

If you are a right side person, you will put your left side first. This way you can confuse your opponent during the 1st round. Of course after the 1st round, your opponent will know exactly which side is your favor side.

In tournament, after you have won the 1st round, if you can win the 2nd round, the fight is over. It's very important to hide your information during your 1st round.

During the Chinese wrestling tournament, one of my favor tricks is to start to attack my opponent's left side. When my opponent pulls his left side back, he will give me the right side that I want.

 

[isshinryuronin]

I agree, however, I want to point out that while you should be able to fight with either side leading and you should be able to switch... you should not let your opponent dictate your stance. Many people train to use uniform stance, with other people who like uniform stance. They are taught to switch, in order to get the other guy to switch, to buy time. These guys are fun to play with. They switch, you switch... they switch, you don't... they will pause and actually wait for you to switch and then get confused when you don't... then they get really tentative because they don't really know whats going on now. Plus, once you realize you have one of these guys for your opponent... you can really set them up...

Yeah, it's fun to mess with the opponent's mind, but, like switching, I do it sparingly. I try to detect the moment the opponent has decided on executing a specific attack and then switch just before he has a chance to execute it. This gives maximum effect in thwarting and frustrating the opponent's plan. So I'm not the kind of "bouncer" who constantly switches stances, but just enough to keep the guy from getting a good fix on me and keep him off balance till I choose to attack. Like I said, I don't care what stance he presents. I can do my thing one way or another.

 

[EdwardA]

I use strong side forward period. As I block and attack I mirror their movement...just inside of it.

As I move I can slide to either side (briefly) depending on what they do, but switch back to strong side.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I don't care what stance he presents. I can do my thing one way or another.

Some techniques can work on both ways.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I use strong side forward period.

- Almost all wrestlers put strong side forward.
- Some strikers put strong side backward.

When one cross trains, this conflict may occur.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

In striking art, most of the techniques can be used in both situations.

- In uniform stance, you can use your back leg to sweep "behind" your opponent's leading leg,
- In mirror stance, you can use your back leg to sweep "in front of" your opponent's leading leg,

when he steps back, you can change your sweep into side kick.

 

[EdwardA]

Yeah, it's fun to mess with the opponent's mind, but, like switching, I do it sparingly. I try to detect the moment the opponent has decided on executing a specific attack and then switch just before he has a chance to execute it. This gives maximum effect in thwarting and frustrating the opponent's plan. So I'm not the kind of "bouncer" who constantly switches stances, but just enough to keep the guy from getting a good fix on me and keep him off balance till I choose to attack. Like I said, I don't care what stance he presents. I can do my thing one way or another.

I think I agree with some of your point, but my mind is not operating in this time (blank). I react more as a mirror to their movement (like a magnet), my mind is in a neutral state. If my mind was active I wouldn't be able to move at the same time as my opponent. But I trained myself stay strong side forward as much as possible. I made it my natural position, over time and practice.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Bill Wallace always has his left side forward.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Bruce Lee always has his right side forward. I have never seen Bruce's left leg flying side kick.

 

[isshinryuronin]

I think I agree with some of your point, but my mind is not operating in this time (blank). I react more as a mirror to their movement (like a magnet), my mind is in a neutral state. If my mind was active I wouldn't be able to move at the same time as my opponent. But I trained myself stay strong side forward as much as possible. I made it my natural position, over time and practice.

There is no conflict between our points. In order to be able to detect the opponent's impending attack, my mind must be in a blank or neutral state as yours is. In karate there is a principle: mizu no kokoro - mind like water, reflecting all that is around it, like a mirror as you say. So on the mental aspects, I think we are on the same page.

 

[EdwardA]

Bruce Lee always has his right side forward. I have never seen Bruce's left leg flying side kick.

I tried to be completely ambidextrous, but that left side....side kick? Nope, I couldn't get there. I was practicing throwing a baseball and football with my left and I improved a lot, but they call it strong side for a reason.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I tried to be completely ambidextrous, but that left side....side kick? Nope, I couldn't get there. I was practicing throwing a baseball and football with my left and I improved a lot, but they call it strong side for a reason.

For the same amount of training time, I can shoot my hand gun with my right hand 10,000 times. If I try to shoot my hand gun with both hands, I can only shoot 5,000 times on each hand. My 10,000 times training should be much better than my 5,000 times training. When I only need to shoot once to kill my enemy, that difference is critical.

We all like to train both sides equal. But our life time is just too short.

My teacher only trained "leg twisting" skill on his right foot. There is a tree hanging training mark on his right foot and not on his left foot. This further prove that even our older generation (1908–1986), they may still train certain technique on 1 side only.