Umm... We gotta talk about BOB SAPP.

[Bee Brian]

About Bob Sapp...

Let me think of a few names here... Lesnar, Sapp, Pudzian, Thompson, Coleman, maybe more. These are dudes who were pretty big. Not FAT, just big with muscles. Let's not overcomplicate this discussion by weeding out the ones who can't lift X amount of weight. Come on, who cares? They're all strong enough.

Sincerely, that's the kind of boxer I wanna be. Minimal technique, lots of raw power. But Bob Sapp is a special case in that his record is just complete poop. He's a joke. But in another thread, I think it was KO-Karate who posted a picture of a "big" Sapp. Except that that picture didn't do Sapp justice, because it was Sapp out of his prime. It was Sapp reduced to James Thompson size. He wasn't the same. I'm talking about the Sapp who beat the living hell out of Ernesto Hoost. My God, it was like an off-season Ronnie Coleman with bigger joints. The version KO-Karate posted had far skinnier arms.

I just watched a YouTube documentary of the whole Sapp versus Hoost shenanigan. I watched both their fights, in which Sapp won both. Same scenario played out... Sapp bulldozed Hoost, TANKED EVERYTHING, then beat the living hell out of Hoost.

I mean, can't you all see the issue here? Hoost was on a winning streak for more than THREE YEARS before an ungraceful, but physically imposing monster ran through him. There's gotta come a point when an opponent is so strong that no amount of clever tricks can beat him. Take note, and I do have to emphasize, this wasn't the depleted Sapp that James Thompson beat. This was Silverback Sapp. And what amazed me more than anything in their first fight was the dude survived all of Hoost's leg kicks. A lankier fighter would not have been able to stand up after that.

I really do have to ask all of you what the appeal is over becoming another Nick Diaz. Why can't you all just eat a lot, lift a lot, and get big? AND THEN supplement all that lifting with SOME technique? More than discussing which one is more effective, we also gotta talk about the issue of which is more honorable. Look... If you are being bullied by a much bigger person who is being violent against you, by all means, become a better fighter. Learn the tricks. Learn techniques. You kinda HAVE to to survive. But to put all your hopes and chances of success on PURE TRICKERY? AND THEN WIN A FIGHT because you were too afraid to take the direct route? You took the path of least resistance?

Why do so many people in the world aspire to become the second Floyd May-feather-fist?

I'm not saying go crazy and rely on pure brute strength. That's stupid. What I'm saying is there is no honor in winning a fight because you know how to manipulate the human body in a way that a truly stronger fighter doesn't know how to deal with. People go to prize fights to be entertained. There is such a thing as too gruesome a fight. People still have compassion. But a few bruises here and there is fine. They want two warriors duking it out in an all-out assault, not dance around like an effeminate butterfly and sting like a bee at times when the opponent is not in a position to hit back.

Forget the term "martial arts". This is about fighting. Fighting, in its earliest days, is a ritualistic violence, a display of courage. If winning a fight truly becomes worth it, then yes, yes, yes. Learn tricks. It's justified. But sport combat is not war. This is entertainment. We all wanna see a good fight. Because if you're a boring fighter who keeps winning, and you are fighting in the Roman arena, and then you finally get bested, the audience are not gonna want you to be spared...

LIFT WEIGHTS.

Watch the comments on that video and realize the reality of being weak but clever in times that it's not called for.

 

[jobo]

About Bob Sapp...

Let me think of a few names here... Lesnar, Sapp, Pudzian, Thompson, Coleman, maybe more. These are dudes who were pretty big. Not FAT, just big with muscles. Let's not overcomplicate this discussion by weeding out the ones who can't lift X amount of weight. Come on, who cares? They're all strong enough.

Sincerely, that's the kind of boxer I wanna be. Minimal technique, lots of raw power. But Bob Sapp is a special case in that his record is just complete poop. He's a joke. But in another thread, I think it was KO-Karate who posted a picture of a "big" Sapp. Except that that picture didn't do Sapp justice, because it was Sapp out of his prime. It was Sapp reduced to James Thompson size. He wasn't the same. I'm talking about the Sapp who beat the living hell out of Ernesto Hoost. My God, it was like an off-season Ronnie Coleman with bigger joints. The version KO-Karate posted had far skinnier arms.

I just watched a YouTube documentary of the whole Sapp versus Hoost shenanigan. I watched both their fights, in which Sapp won both. Same scenario played out... Sapp bulldozed Hoost, TANKED EVERYTHING, then beat the living hell out of Hoost.

I mean, can't you all see the issue here? Hoost was on a winning streak for more than THREE YEARS before an ungraceful, but physically imposing monster ran through him. There's gotta come a point when an opponent is so strong that no amount of clever tricks can beat him. Take note, and I do have to emphasize, this wasn't the depleted Sapp that James Thompson beat. This was Silverback Sapp. And what amazed me more than anything in their first fight was the dude survived all of Hoost's leg kicks. A lankier fighter would not have been able to stand up after that.

I really do have to ask all of you what the appeal is over becoming another Nick Diaz. Why can't you all just eat a lot, lift a lot, and get big? AND THEN supplement all that lifting with SOME technique? More than discussing which one is more effective, we also gotta talk about the issue of which is more honorable. Look... If you are being bullied by a much bigger person who is being violent against you, by all means, become a better fighter. Learn the tricks. Learn techniques. You kinda HAVE to to survive. But to put all your hopes and chances of success on PURE TRICKERY? AND THEN WIN A FIGHT because you were too afraid to take the direct route? You took the path of least resistance?

Why do so many people in the world aspire to become the second Floyd May-feather-fist?

I'm not saying go crazy and rely on pure brute strength. That's stupid. What I'm saying is there is no honor in winning a fight because you know how to manipulate the human body in a way that a truly stronger fighter doesn't know how to deal with. People go to prize fights to be entertained. There is such a thing as too gruesome a fight. People still have compassion. But a few bruises here and there is fine. They want two warriors duking it out in an all-out assault, not dance around like an effeminate butterfly and sting like a bee at times when the opponent is not in a position to hit back.

Forget the term "martial arts". This is about fighting. Fighting, in its earliest days, is a ritualistic violence, a display of courage. If winning a fight truly becomes worth it, then yes, yes, yes. Learn tricks. It's justified. But sport combat is not war. This is entertainment. We all wanna see a good fight. Because if you're a boring fighter who keeps winning, and you are fighting in the Roman arena, and then you finally get bested, the audience are not gonna want you to be spared...

LIFT WEIGHTS.

Watch the comments on that video and realize the reality of being weak but clever in times that it's not called for.

strengh helps, a lot,

people who arnt strong tend to get upset if you point that out.

but any half serious boxer is strong, so you dont just need to be stronger than the general population, you need to be masively stronger than someone else who does stengh training who also takes skill seriously and that is not at all easy to do

if you want to emulate sapp, then find out what his training routeen was and copy it( steriods?)

its easy to find Anthony Joshua s training on line, he another not particularly great boxer who is very very strong of course he is also 7 foot tall and your not, but hey

 

[Hanzou]

1. Not everyone can get to that size.
2. Reaching the size of someone like Sapp also brings along some health risks.
3. Not everyone wants to look like a roided up freak show. For a lot of men, Bruce Lee or the "swimmer bod" is the ideal body type.

As for Sapp, his size, while an advantage, was also a hinderance in a lot of his later MMA fights.

 

[Bee Brian]

1. Not everyone can get to that size.
2. Reaching the size of someone like Sapp also brings along some health risks.
3. Not everyone wants to look like a roided up freak show. For a lot of men, Bruce Lee or the "swimmer bod" is the ideal body type.

As for Sapp, his size, while an advantage, was also a hinderance in a lot of his later MMA fights.

My response on each numbers...

1. I understand that. I didn't mean get as big as Sapp. Yeah, most people don't have that capacity no matter how hard they train. But everyone can improve.

2. No arguments there. But you can only get there with steroids. And if it takes steroids to get there, it ain't worth it. BUT, taking steroids off the equation, everyone should get as strong as they possibly can naturally, while still doing aerobics and staying relatively lean. Without steroids and with a good diet, you shouldn't reach the kind of size where it becomes a health hazard.

3. Bruce Lee lifted weights. Heck, he even did the exercise called "Good Mornings", which is a staple movement for many powerlifters who do the Westside method. BRUCE LEE of all people. And I honestly believe that the reason swimmers maintain that kind of physique is because it's just how they were born with. It does NOT mean that they don't try their best to constantly pack on strength. Not necessarily pure muscle bulk, but STRENGTH. And as an athlete, why would you hinder your progress on strength?

Sapp's size was a hindrance, yes. But at least he managed to beat an elite fighter with it before proving himself a terrible fighter in the end. Otherwise, Mirko Cro Cop would not have been so cheerful when he beat him.

 

[Bee Brian]

strengh helps, a lot,

people who arnt strong tend to get upset if you point that out.

but any half serious boxer is strong, so you dont just need to be stronger than the general population, you need to be masively stronger than someone else who does stengh training who also takes skill seriously and that is not at all easy to do

if you want to emulate sapp, then find out what his training routeen was and copy it( steriods?)

its easy to find Anthony Joshua s training on line, he another not particularly great boxer who is very very strong of course he is also 7 foot tall and your not, but hey

Please stop directly attacking me. First you were pointing out that I was fat. And now this? It's getting old. And it's pathetic.

Anyway, to the other things you said...

Lots of serious boxers don't take weight training seriously. They don't. They're built like endurance athletes. They get by with good technique, but they're not the true heavy hitters.

Now, I don't know about my dude Pacman's training routine, but I've seen a video of Buakaw training. He's got a solid physique, and lifting is a part of his program. He lifts relatively light, but there's still that lifting there, at least. Buakaw and other great fighters lift weights, but not all great fighters do. These other great fighters get by with pure technique, and there's no fun in that. It's not that hard to spot them. They look weak.

 

[jobo]

My response on each numbers...

1. I understand that. I didn't mean get as big as Sapp. Yeah, most people don't have that capacity no matter how hard they train. But everyone can improve.

2. No arguments there. But you can only get there with steroids. And if it takes steroids to get there, it ain't worth it. BUT, taking steroids off the equation, everyone should get as strong as they possibly can naturally, while still doing aerobics and staying relatively lean. Without steroids and with a good diet, you shouldn't reach the kind of size where it becomes a health hazard.

3. Bruce Lee lifted weights. Heck, he even did the exercise called "Good Mornings", which is a staple movement for many powerlifters who do the Westside method. BRUCE LEE of all people. And I honestly believe that the reason swimmers maintain that kind of physique is because it's just how they were born with. It does NOT mean that they don't try their best to constantly pack on strength. Not necessarily pure muscle bulk, but STRENGTH. And as an athlete, why would you hinder your progress on strength?

Sapp's size was a hindrance, yes. But at least he managed to beat an elite fighter with it before proving himself a terrible fighter in the end. Otherwise, Mirko Cro Cop would not have been so cheerful when he beat him.

your the wrong shape for a boxer, at 5.6 yout going to have to get right down the weight classes before your lack of reach isnt a serious disadvantage ,

your not goibg to carry much muscle with you to get to 140lbs, , puttibg a lot of muscle on will just move you up the weights and then yol be jabbed to death again.

at that weight they are speed merchants, they will hit you 6 times in the blink of an eye, and punches equal points your goibg to need technuque and speed

 

[Bee Brian]

your the wrong shape for a boxer, at 5.6 yout going to have to get right down the weight classes before your lack of reach isnt a serious disadvantage ,

your not goibg to carry much muscle with you to get to 140lbs, , puttibg a lot of muscle on will just move you up the weights and then yol be jabbed to death again.

at that weight they are speed merchants, they will hit you 6 times in the blink of an eye, and punches equal points

Whoah. I know I have to lose weight BUT 140 POUNDS?? Dude, that's way too light.

I'm not here to compare myself to Mike Tyson but the dude was short for a heavyweight. Why can't I just try out his style? Same with Frazier?

I'm thinking of going down to 160 and being an inside fighter against taller opponents. But 140? No way man. UNLESS I'm 160 at fighting times while dehydrating into 140 at weigh ins. How about that?

 

[jobo]

Whoah. I know I have to lose weight BUT 140 POUNDS?? Dude, that's way too light.

I'm not here to compare myself to Mike Tyson but the dude was short for a heavyweight. Why can't I just try out his style? Same with Frazier?

I'm thinking of going down to 160 and being an inside fighter against taller opponents. But 140? No way man. UNLESS I'm 160 at fighting times while dehydrating into 140 at weigh ins. How about that?

mike tyson was not 5 foot 6 . bruce lee was, he was also circa 140lbs mike t, was a heavy weight, he could put on as much muscle as he wanted, you cant or youl get knocked up a weight division

if your not down at least at welterweight, then your reach disadvantage will be enourmass

there a good reason why you dont see many 5 .6 middle weights

 

[Bee Brian]

mike tyson was not 5 foot 6 . bruce lee was, he was also circa 140lbs mike t, was a heavy weight, he could put on as much muscle as he wanted, you cant or youl get knocked up a weight division

if your not down at least at welterweight, then your reach disadvantage will be enourmass

there a good reason why you dont see many 5 .6 middle weights

165 is middleweight huh?

I'll get down to middleweight and see how I feel.

I'll be infinitely weaker, as if I'm already not weak enough, unless my diet is extremely dialed in and precise.

We'll see.

 

[KOKarate]

Why are you even giving anyone on here advice? You haven’t trained martial arts a day in your life so why would I listen to your opinions on martial arts? You want to be some big muscle guy good luck with that have fun but I’m not going to change a thing about what I do just because you tell me to

 

[KOKarate]

strengh helps, a lot,

people who arnt strong tend to get upset if you point that out.

but any half serious boxer is strong, so you dont just need to be stronger than the general population, you need to be masively stronger than someone else who does stengh training who also takes skill seriously and that is not at all easy to do

if you want to emulate sapp, then find out what his training routeen was and copy it( steriods?)

its easy to find Anthony Joshua s training on line, he another not particularly great boxer who is very very strong of course he is also 7 foot tall and your not, but hey

Also bob sapps career was in Japan....japan mma is very well known for corruption and fixed fights so even his wins you can’t be sure are legit

 

[Bee Brian]

lol. I just checked. Middleweight boxers average at 6 feet. Do you have any idea how SKINNY those guys are gonna be to me?

I have a friend who's lanky. He's 6'4, 215 pounds and he's A TWIG. Incredibly weak. Imagine a 165-pound guy at 6 feet tall. He's gonna look malnourished.

Yeeeaaaaah.... I ain't scared of sticking to middleweight at 5'6. lol. I've been in a fight back in middle school with a much shorter but stockier enemy. He kicked my butt with ease. All he had to do was brave my weak jabs and get closer. That was all it took.

 

[Bee Brian]

Why are you even giving anyone on here advice? You haven’t trained martial arts a day in your life so why would I listen to your opinions on martial arts? You want to be some big muscle guy good luck with that have fun but I’m not going to change a thing about what I do just because you tell me to

Even if I defeat you in a sparring match?

You can't, though, that's the thing. Not because you are a better fighter or I am a better fighter, but because of some complications you explained before.

So we're pretty much stuck arguing here.

Why can't we just spar man? What's wrong with that? If we are not allowed to hurt each other, then let's just do light sparring. Do you really expect me to go with full force when we specifically agree to LIGHT sparring? lol. I'm not a criminal.

 

[jobo]

lol. I just checked. Middleweight boxers average at 6 feet. Do you have any idea how SKINNY those guys are gonna be to me?

I have a friend who's lanky. He's 6'4, 215 pounds and he's A TWIG. Incredibly weak. Imagine a 165-pound guy at 6 feet tall. He's gonna look malnourished.

Yeeeaaaaah.... I ain't scared of sticking to middleweight at 5'6. lol. I've been in a fight back in middle school with a much shorter but stockier enemy. He kicked my butt with ease. All he had to do was brave my weak jabs and get closer. That was all it took.

tou mean athletic looking, what you see is athletes with 5 % body fat and a,sigicifant amount of muscle

at 5% body fat you will be down at 140 or below,

 

[KOKarate]

Even if I defeat you in a sparring match?

You can't, though, that's the thing. Not because you are a better fighter or I am a better fighter, but because of some complications you explained before.

So we're pretty much stuck arguing here.

Why can't we just spar man? What's wrong with that? If we are not allowed to hurt each other, then let's just do light sparring. Do you really expect me to go with full force when we specifically agree to LIGHT sparring? lol. I'm not a criminal.

Why would I waste my time sparring someone with 0 experience? I get nothing out of it.

I couldn’t care less if you go full force I’ve fought a LOT stronger people than you who also have better skill. As I already said when you tried to challenge me in private messages I don’t spar with strangers for safeguarding reason. First meeting up with strangers Is never a good idea I don’t know you from Adam. You say I’m not a criminal how am I supposed to know that just because you say so? Also if we do spar how do I know your not going to try and have me sued for hurting you.

so no I am not going to spar you because frankly I don’t need to...My egos not do huge I need to prove anything to some random on the internet and also just so you are aware challenging people on here is against the rules

 

[Bee Brian]

tou mean athletic looking, what you see is athletes with 5 % body fat and a,sigicifant amount of muscle

at 5% body fat you will be down at 140 or below,

Dude no. Even Mayweather is ABOVE 10% bodyfat. You're getting the numbers wrong.

Bruce Lee was like EIGHT PERCENT.

No man. lol. Like I said, I have a friend who's 6'4, 215. Twig. Proportionally, we make him shorter... Six feet, he'd be 205 pounds. Twig. Imagine a true middleweight who's 40 pounds lighter than that.

TWIG. Wouldn't intimidate me.

 

[KOKarate]

Dude no. Even Mayweather is ABOVE 10% bodyfat. You're getting the numbers wrong.

Bruce Lee was like EIGHT PERCENT.

No man. lol. Like I said, I have a friend who's 6'4, 215. Twig. Proportionally, we make him shorter... Six feet, he'd be 205 pounds. Twig. Imagine a true middleweight who's 40 pounds lighter than that.

TWIG. Wouldn't intimidate me.

If that twig had boxing experience he’d beat the hell out of you

 

[Bee Brian]

challenging people on here is against the rules

I DIDN'T KNOW THAT!

Hey I'm sorry.

Dammit man, shoulda told me earlier. Now I'm in trouble. Sorry.

 

[Bee Brian]

If that twig had boxing experience he’d beat the hell out of you

Nope!

 

[KOKarate]

Nope!

Yes....sorry if your ego can’t take it but it’s the truth I’ve seen it hundreds of times a smaller guy tuning up big guys who think they’re all that just because they lift weights