Two Taekwondo contestants have altercation before contest

miguksaram

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First thank you for setting the story straight it makes much more sense. The paper should be forced to post a retraction. The actions of the person committing the sucker kick after being upset with the outcome of the match is a classic example of the impact of to much sport mentality related to the money and business of TKD instead of the tradition of mental and spiritual goals for personal development and a commitment to help others and community.

This has more to do with this kid being an @$$ than anything else. How many incidents happened like this during the weekend? Two, three, twenty? If this was an example of sport mentality then we would have seen more incidents like this. Instead we hear of a report of one bad apple. Also how do you link sport mentality to the business? Finally why should any TKD school be responsible for the spiritual growth of a community? We are a martial art not a church.
 

miguksaram

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There is a special place in Hell for those masters and parents that throw thier kids in the fire for thier personal gain or ego to the olympics allowing sicafants to abuse and rape thier children for thier personal needs.
What the heck are you talking about. Seriously...you need to refrain from drinking prior to posting. This is just going off the deep end here.

Dan said:
I hope all you bastards rot in hell because you are so low that you need to feed your self in the name of statistics or some crap piece of plastic medal or trophie that feeds you or brings your Dojang money not the children or students. There have been deaths and ireversable damage due to the Olympics and even now some pumped up masters who give money to damaged students to shut them up hoping they will die while they let rape and abuse occure in thier own houses and you know who you are cowards. Take my word if anyone shoots back they are guilty it only confirms it. Don't listen to thier list of high connections and name dropping they are trailer trash of the worst kind and you violate all that is core to martial arts by not being able to see what is unseen giving respect and credibility to thier knowledge because they were able to say they have read this or that or have this library or know this or that GM Bull **** they are Evil and low they belong in a max cell with Bubba in a skirt with lip stick *****!
We should also curse bobsledding too, because there have been deaths and irreversible damage there too. Perhaps we will curse football as so many young people have died in the past few years in that sport.....oh wait, while we are at it, let's curse basketball some rape and drug charges against those athletes as well. In fact just ban sports all together. As your logic clearly shows that it is the root of all evil and it is easier to blame than just the few pricks that actually responsible for their own actions.

Honestly Dan your mentality is more of a factor here. You want to place blame in a general area. This allows people to not take personal responsibility for their actions and instead, with the help of people like you, allows them to point to something and blame their actions on that. "I didn't rape because I am sexual deviant. I raped because of the sports mentality that TKD instilled me."

Seriously...get a grip.
 

jks9199

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wade

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I was sitting in ring one, about 30 feet away and also watched it go down. What poomsae guys says is correct and the news paper is wrong. The kid was just sitting there when the other walked slowly by and then all of a sudden kicked him in the face. The local reported was standing beside me interviewing a local instructor when it happened and boom, you have your lead story for the night. Considering she was there and interviewed everyone she could it surprises and disapoints me that she still got it wrong.
 

TKDinAK

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IMO, the attitudes and actions of youngsters in MA are mostly a result of their parents and their instructor/training. Those adults in this kid's life should step up and take accountability right alongside him.

My son is only three years old, and soon I would like for him to start TKD training with me at some point. If he does, and continues on into his teen years, I would hope he will be one of the most accountable and respectful students in his class. His training in those two character assets has already started long ago... and it's my job to make sure they continue. Additionally, I would put 100% faith in my current instructor being lock-step with me in this. It is also my responsibility to make sure whatever instructor he has, the values of the tenets are forefront in his training. And, if my son somehow strays from the path of accountability and respect, I will not allow him to train in MA.

Youngsters, especially teens, can let their emotions get the best of them... and they WILL say and do stupid things that hurt others. They need to stand accountable for such acts, and it's the adults in their lives who should be the ones causing them to do so. Shame on them if they don't.

JMO...
 

sadantkd

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If either one of those kids were my student, their belts would be on my desk Monday morning and they would no longer be members of my school. There is absolutely no excuse for behavior like that and shame on their instructors and parents for not teaching them basic courtesy and respect.
Why would you arbitrarily punish both kids. Ever if I hadn't just read what the witness said, my first response to this post would have been to ask what if one of the kids was merely defending himself. This is why I despise these zero tolerance policies
 

puunui

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You see this is how information get mixed up! I was there ringside. One boy was sitting in a chair when the other kid roundhouse kicked him in the face, dislocating his jaw and knocking out his two front teeth! The father on the boy who was hit jumped the rail and went after the kid who attached his son. The two had already fought their fight and the kid who attacked didn't like the out come! We later say the kid and his father ( who really didn't seem that upset) beening removed by the police.

I heard the kick was half an hour after the match. The competitor who was kicked is a student of Master Jin Suh from New York.
 

puunui

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Please DO NOT blame the sport of Taekwondo!!!

What I think people mean when they blame "sport" vs. "martial art" is they are trying to say that it is a "western" sport attitude as opposed to an eastern or asian cultural or sport attitude or philosophy. In western sports, it is common to see bench clearing fights, people yelling and disrespecting the opposing team or the referees, etc. You don't see so much of that in Asian situations. I see this as a natural consequence of the attempts by some to do away with asian philosophical concepts and replace them with American or western philosophical concepts. I think we will be seeing more of this type of behavior as time goes on.
 

d1jinx

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Either I pay more attention now, or it has really gotten bad these days. I dont remember things like this before. I mean, we had a few scuffles in the parking lot AFTER the tournament, but the level it is getting to today is out of control... as is society.

I'm not that old yet. and yes, we would have words in the parking lot with other schools or practitioners that may or may not have led to an altercation. But never did emotions run so out of control to act out during the tournament. Trash talking outside later that led to a fight not good, but not bad as purposely seeking revenge during an event because you couldnt handle the loss...

I dont know. I just think there are more problems with TKD today since the USAT decided to focus on the "elite" players and the whole sport aspect... damn, i turned this into a bash USAT... sorry wasnt intentional, just an observation.
 

armortkd

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Here is the progression I've observed over the last 20+ years.......these physical altercations & verbal misconduct has started from the Master & Coaches, to the Teams & families in the crowd, and now down to the athletes. My focus is on their personal performance on each individual match, & I always talk with the athlete after the match so I know that they're okay. Leave it in the ring!!! This isn't an Eastern versus Western thing even though I agree there obviously cultural differences. I've seen Korean coaches get physical with other coaches, referees, and athletes.

What makes this incident worse than others:
1. It didn't happen in the ring.
2. The attacker assaulted the victim who was sitting in a defenseless position.
3. The victim had teeth knocked-out & needed medical attention.

My personal curiousity thinks about what led up to the incident. But as a father, brother, uncle, teacher, instructor, & coach.........I've been taught by my parents & coaches that one stupid, careless act can result in losing your life, family, relationships, wealth, job, etc.
 

troubleenuf

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Come on... you mean you never seen a couple of Korean masters meet out in the back to "discuss" things? Cant say as Ive seen it lately but it seemed to be part of the "program" 25 years ago.

What I think people mean when they blame "sport" vs. "martial art" is they are trying to say that it is a "western" sport attitude as opposed to an eastern or asian cultural or sport attitude or philosophy. In western sports, it is common to see bench clearing fights, people yelling and disrespecting the opposing team or the referees, etc. You don't see so much of that in Asian situations. I see this as a natural consequence of the attempts by some to do away with asian philosophical concepts and replace them with American or western philosophical concepts. I think we will be seeing more of this type of behavior as time goes on.
 

puunui

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Come on... you mean you never seen a couple of Korean masters meet out in the back to "discuss" things? Cant say as Ive seen it lately but it seemed to be part of the "program" 25 years ago.

I've seen masters arguing at meetings but never to the point of throwing blows and not at tournaments. That really isn't the sort that I have been associated with personally. I can say with all honesty that none of my Korean born teachers ever acted like that at a tournament or at a meeting, and neither have I. We do not do that sort of thing. Instead, we maintain our discipline and respect, even when, especially when, things are not going our way.
 
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mango.man

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What I think people mean when they blame "sport" vs. "martial art" is they are trying to say that it is a "western" sport attitude as opposed to an eastern or asian cultural or sport attitude or philosophy. In western sports, it is common to see bench clearing fights, people yelling and disrespecting the opposing team or the referees, etc. You don't see so much of that in Asian situations. I see this as a natural consequence of the attempts by some to do away with asian philosophical concepts and replace them with American or western philosophical concepts. I think we will be seeing more of this type of behavior as time goes on.

True. The Asian cultures usually reserve that behavior for their elected officials.
 

IcemanSK

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I've seen masters arguing at meetings but never to the point of throwing blows and not at tournaments. That really isn't the sort that I have been associated with personally. I can say with all honesty that none of my Korean born teachers ever acted like that at a tournament or at a meeting, and neither have I. We do not do that sort of thing. Instead, we maintain our discipline and respect, even when, especially when, things are not going our way.
It wasn't my instructor either, but two other Korean masters in the early 80's going at it like Ren & Stimpy in the parking lot over who's student won the match. We didn't attend that tournament as a school again. Its certainly not an Eastern or Western thing. It is a respect for one's self issue. And its sad when it happens. But no more less so in any place in society, sport or otherwise.This is not directed at you or your above post Glenn. Just adding my two cents after your post.
 

troubleenuf

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Well I have to say you missed some very good entertainment in that case. Not that I would condone it at my age now but it sure was interesting when I was 18!

I've seen masters arguing at meetings but never to the point of throwing blows and not at tournaments. That really isn't the sort that I have been associated with personally. I can say with all honesty that none of my Korean born teachers ever acted like that at a tournament or at a meeting, and neither have I. We do not do that sort of thing. Instead, we maintain our discipline and respect, even when, especially when, things are not going our way.
 

ralphmcpherson

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I heard a funny story that happenend at a tournament here years ago. It was fought using the WTF ruleset and this one guy was just murdering the other guy, constant kicks to the head, constantly knocking him down with a flurry of kicks and was being very unsportsmanlike about it, waving his arms around and telling the other guy he was useless. Anyway, after the fight the guy who won by a mile went up and gave the loser an absolute gobfull about how much he won by and how 'easy' it was. The guy who lost finally had enough and invited him to "step outside to sort it out". The two guys went outside and the guy who had lost the tkd match absolutely flattened the other guy and proceeded to beat the hell out of him and said "your not so good without those rules to hide behind". It really emphasised that there is a big difference between "fighting" and "sparring". My instructor saw the whole thing and said he still has a giggle about it to this day.
 

msmitht

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I've seen masters arguing at meetings but never to the point of throwing blows and not at tournaments. That really isn't the sort that I have been associated with personally. I can say with all honesty that none of my Korean born teachers ever acted like that at a tournament or at a meeting, and neither have I. We do not do that sort of thing. Instead, we maintain our discipline and respect, even when, especially when, things are not going our way.
I have seen them throw blows. They used to do it in the "grandmasters/masters lounge/area" (I.e. smoking area near tourney where students are not allowed). Now they bicker and shout at pre/post tourney meetings. I know because I have been there(the only non korean to attend in my area). I won't get into what is normally discussed as it is not part of this thread.
Too much ego and a general lack of respect is to blame. Ban the kid who attacked the other for a year. He made a poor decision while in the wrong frame of mind.
Want to try and prevent this from happening at more tourneys? Hire more security. Boot anyone who uses profanity, vulgar language or acts in a threating manner from the event regardless of who they are or how many students they bring. Gives the referees the ability to boot anyone who verbally accosts them durring or after a match.
 
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d1jinx

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yup. can vouch for that too. seen a few Korean grandmasters go at it a few times. at the end of the day, we're all human and loose our tempers. no one "culture" is exempt.
 

sfs982000

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It's really unfortunate to hear about situations like that. I understand that there are some very competitive individuals out there, but this is ridiculous. I would have to agree with Balrog when he stated that if they were his students their belts would be on his desk and they would no longer be his students. I guess losing with dignity is something they were never taught.
 

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