Two Arrested In Pastor Slaying... over a PIN number.

MA-Caver

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Animals. That was the thought I had to the two young men who committed this senseless crime. Two people have been charged in the killing of a local pastor, Chattanooga police said this morning.
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2010/oct/11/chattanooga-police-arrest-two-pastors-slaying/ Antonio Henry, 25, and a 16-year-old male were charged late last night with felony murder and especially aggravated homicide for the killing of Pastor David Strong, according to a police department news release. Police said Henry told them he struck Strong with a stick and saw the 16-year-old stab Strong several times. Henry also told police he bound Strong's wrists, but the 16-year-old told police he was the one who struck Strong with the stick and Henry did the stabbing. Police said they believe Strong was killed either Monday or Tuesday of last week. The two conspired to rob Strong of money and valuables but ended up viciously beating, stabbing and strangling the pastor, according to a news release.
Further reading shown that the two began beating the man after he refused to give up his PIN number for his credit (or debit) card. Now a lot of people would say go ahead give it up and be done with it and they'll leave after getting what they wanted. Yet as I thought about this... part of me said that instinct told the man that hey were going to kill him anyway, irregardless if he gave up his information. Having mangled the body so severely that police initially thought he was shot says it was the work of mindless animals. Oh, one of them being a 16 year old boy who hung around this 25 year-old and thus was badly influenced. Somehow I don't think so. Both had a hand in the beating, both were remorseless enough to attack a pastor/minister. No qualms about it just get the man and his money. If I were a judge I'd give the 25 year old the death penalty and have the 16 year old in prison until he was 21 and then sentence him to death as well. As vicious as this attack was it speaks loudly that there is no rehabilitation for these two. They don't deserve life in prison because they'll just enact their madness in there upon other inmates and guards. From the description of the wounds and the items listed that were used on the man, this was an act of sadism not illicit financial gain via robbery. So in essence... they're animals, having lost their humanity some where in their young lives. Very sad. Sometimes you just got to keep on fighting until it ends. Sounds to me like the pastor did just that... refusing to give up what the perps wanted. May he rest in peace.
 

Bill Mattocks

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Now a lot of people would say go ahead give it up and be done with it and they'll leave after getting what they wanted. Yet as I thought about this... part of me said that instinct told the man that hey were going to kill him anyway, irregardless if he gave up his information.

Look at it this way; it's math.

Option 1: give up the pin. Get killed anyway.
Option 2: give up the pin. Animals go away.
Option 3: do not give up pin. Get killed anyway.
Option 4: do not give up pin. Animals go away.

Of these, which of these is most likely to result in not being killed? Would you say that the animals in this case would be MORE likely or LESS likely to kill the Pastor after a) getting the pin or b) not getting the pin?

There is no way to know, and I'm not going to second-guess his choices. But the thought occurs to me that I'd have a better chance - if only a slightly better chance - to survive by giving up the pin. It's money. My life is worth more to me than my money. I share your outrage at the criminals, and I agree that they deserve no quarter.
 
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MA-Caver

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Look at it this way; it's math.

Option 1: give up the pin. Get killed anyway.
Option 2: give up the pin. Animals go away.
Option 3: do not give up pin. Get killed anyway.
Option 4: do not give up pin. Animals go away.

Of these, which of these is most likely to result in not being killed? Would you say that the animals in this case would be MORE likely or LESS likely to kill the Pastor after a) getting the pin or b) not getting the pin?

There is no way to know, and I'm not going to second-guess his choices. But the thought occurs to me that I'd have a better chance - if only a slightly better chance - to survive by giving up the pin. It's money. My life is worth more to me than my money. I share your outrage at the criminals, and I agree that they deserve no quarter.
Well yeah... that's what I meant when I said the pastor might've had an instinctive sense that he wouldn't survive the robbery anyway and that's why he didn't give (the pin) up. I mean if those animals had just jumped him and tied him up and smacked him around a bit to intimidate him but their attitude said we just want the money and we'll leave... then perhaps the Pastor might've given it to them and been left alone.
But when they're beating the crap out of you mercilessly you kinda get the idea that money isn't what all they're after. So... screw 'em at least they go away empty handed and there's the hope that they'll get caught.
A pastor would probably have a little less fear of dying than other folk. He was probably inwardly (or even outwardly -- which if that were the case probably infuriated the two further) forgiving them for they knew not what they were doing.
 

MJS

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Hopefully these 2 will be locked up for a very long time. I'll go with the less popular option, and fight back before giving anything up. Given the way they attacked his poor man, if I had to wager a bet, I'd say they probably would've killed him anyways.
 
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MA-Caver

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He died over the money the pin number could provide.
Cpt. Obvious.:mst:
I don`t know if that`s the case, and neither do you. They may have been just as likely to decide not to leave a witness behind.
There is that. Unless one of the two perps talks we'll never know.
But even if it were as simple and stupid as that... I still wouldn't have called it a senseless death.
Think about it... he DIDN'T give in to their torture, he fought them and in the end they still LOST! Now in jail... justice will be served one way or another.
 

Bill Mattocks

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Well yeah... that's what I meant when I said the pastor might've had an instinctive sense that he wouldn't survive the robbery anyway and that's why he didn't give (the pin) up. I mean if those animals had just jumped him and tied him up and smacked him around a bit to intimidate him but their attitude said we just want the money and we'll leave... then perhaps the Pastor might've given it to them and been left alone.
But when they're beating the crap out of you mercilessly you kinda get the idea that money isn't what all they're after. So... screw 'em at least they go away empty handed and there's the hope that they'll get caught.
A pastor would probably have a little less fear of dying than other folk. He was probably inwardly (or even outwardly -- which if that were the case probably infuriated the two further) forgiving them for they knew not what they were doing.

I can only speak for myself. If there is a one in a million chance that they'll stop and go away when I give them the pin number, and no chance that they'll go away if I don't give them the pin number, I'm going to give them the freaking pin number. If the only chance I have is a very very small one, I'm not going to avoid taking it so I can have a 'so there' in death. Screw that, I'd rather be alive.

John Wayne has a lot to answer for. The point of self-defense is to stay alive. Period. Take any opportunity to do that. It may not work, but choosing certain death so that you can have some small measure of revenge? Seems pointless to me.
 

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A pastor would probably have a little less fear of dying than other folk. He was probably inwardly (or even outwardly -- which if that were the case probably infuriated the two further) forgiving them for they knew not what they were doing.

Not so sure about that. Esp. Since pastors are just ordinary human beings with ordinary human failings. Plenty of them have every reason to be afraid of death and what (or who) will await them beyond the veil.
 

Bruno@MT

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I can only speak for myself. If there is a one in a million chance that they'll stop and go away when I give them the pin number, and no chance that they'll go away if I don't give them the pin number, I'm going to give them the freaking pin number. If the only chance I have is a very very small one, I'm not going to avoid taking it so I can have a 'so there' in death. Screw that, I'd rather be alive.

John Wayne has a lot to answer for. The point of self-defense is to stay alive. Period. Take any opportunity to do that. It may not work, but choosing certain death so that you can have some small measure of revenge? Seems pointless to me.

+1. And if he had stayed alive and just given the pin, the chances of them being caught would actually have been higher because there'd be his testimony, as well as (possibly) additional evidence of their guilt when they'd use the card.

When in doubt, choose life.
 

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Once again, I'll be the voice of disagreement.
http://www.courant.com/community/east-hartford/hc-bus-stop-robber-1015-20101014,0,2518935.story

Prosecutor Robin Krawczyk told Judge David P. Gold that Brooks terrorized three victims when he threatened each of them with a .357-caliber magnum revolver. One victim was convinced Brooks planned to shoot him and another is still haunted by the robbery, she said.

The robberies occurred on the morning of Dec. 4, 2009. Brooks and two others targeted people waiting for buses to go to their jobs. The first robbery was at 5:30 a.m. at Huntington and Ashley streets, where Brooks pointed the gun at a woman and fled with her pocketbook. The second robbery occurred 18 minutes later at Tower Avenue and Cornwall Street, where the victim had only $3. That angered Brooks, who struck the man in the face before fleeing. The third robbery occurred at 6:58 a.m. in the area of Main Street, when Brook stole $20 from a man at gunpoint.

So even though the victim complied with this piece of trash, giving him money, he was still hit in the face. Speaking for myself only, but I dont walk around with a ton of cash in my pocket. Some days I may have $40, others I may have $3. Money is money IMO, but I guess because the victim didn't have hundreds in his pocket, this punk felt the need to hit him in the face.

I still maintain my views....nothing says that if I comply, the punk(s) will take off. Sure, they may take off...and blow me away in the process. I may as well fight back and take my chances. I'm sure there are people out there that do fight back, and succeed, with the punk running away.

The above is just my opinion. I'm sure others will agree, and some will disagree. Either way, thats cool. :)
 
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