Troublesome poomse

Azulx

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I do my form for tournament, so it would be nice if I ended where I started. I am not about to do any of my stances wrong, though. but even for tournament, ending up off your starting point does not seem to be that big of a deal if you do the rest of your form well enough. The problem is if you are competing against someone who is just as good as you are, how far off the starting point you are might be the determining factor (referencing Earl Weiss's comment here).

Any way you can post a video of you doing the form? I'm sure Master Weiss or other Ch'ang Hon practitioners could help.
 

Azulx

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Also how do you go about measuring your stances , like one shoulder half a shoulder etc? Our front stance is 4 steps forward three to the side 60% of your weight is on the front leg 40% is on the back. Our Back Stance is 1 inch between the heels and the front leg 3 steps forward, 70% of weight on back leg 30% on front leg . Our instructor is not big on ending exactly where you started.
 

dowz

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What we do in our dojang is to use the training mats as a guide - you roughly gauge how much of the mat length you use as for forward stance, back stance and walking stance.

Practice enough, and you will be able to remove the visual aids of the mats to have almost the same length for all your stances.
 

TrueJim

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Just FYI, I diagrammed what I perceive to the the problem with Taegeuk Il Jang. When you follow the footwork of each turn, it's difficult to see how you could wind up on the Joonbee spot without "cheating" on the stances.

1280
 

Gnarlie

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Just FYI, I diagrammed what I perceive to the the problem with Taegeuk Il Jang. When you follow the footwork of each turn, it's difficult to see how you could wind up on the Joonbee spot without "cheating" on the stances.

1280
You have to pay specific attention to Apseogi in terms of width and the angle of the back foot. Consult the KKW definition.

Additionally, focus on always turning on the ball of the foot.

Turning in Apseogi should not make you travel off the line by much if done correctly. Maybe one foot width per line at most.

Three foot widths is more than recoverable when spread between subtle variations in Apkubi length and turning on the centre of the front foot to return to Ready if necessary. Any adjustment should be subtle enough that it is invisible to the viewer.

It can be overcome by lengthening the first two Apkubis by one and a half foot widths and doing normal lengths on the way back. But that's obvious. Lengthen the first two by slightly less than one foot width, and shorten the last two by slightly less than one foot width, and you're there.
 

TrueJim

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You have to pay specific attention to Apseogi in terms of width and the angle of the back foot. Consult the KKW definition....Turning in Apseogi should not make you travel off the line by much if done correctly...

My math shows a total of 4.5 foot-widths error (1.5 on the first line, 1 on the second line, 1 on the third line, and 1 on the final turn), but your point is well taken...my apseogi is probably too wide. When I finish, I'm farther than 4.5 foot-widths behind the starting position...indicating that my apsoegi must be too wide.
 

Earl Weiss

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So I did the math on a spread sheet, and with the assumption that my stances are perfect, I found that I should end up exactly 1 4/6 shoulder widths to the right of my starting point. I also found that my back stances during the form (during the double knife hand blocks) are deeper, about 1 1/3 shoulder widths in length.

If you did not do the stepping as the pattern dictates (see post #2) at moves 26-27 this would be about where you would end up.
 

Earl Weiss

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Gnarlie

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My math shows a total of 4.5 foot-widths error (1.5 on the first line, 1 on the second line, 1 on the third line, and 1 on the final turn), but your point is well taken...my apseogi is probably too wide. When I finish, I'm farther than 4.5 foot-widths behind the starting position...indicating that my apsoegi must be too wide.
uploadfromtaptalk1462973499870.png


It has almost no width for competition purposes. As competition is the only time when it is necessary to get back to the spot, well, there it is.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 

TrueJim

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Yes exactly...I tend to treat apseogii like a natural "walking" gait, so there's a bit more width between my feet naturally...ten-twelve centimeters probably. Multiply that by 4 turns and you can easily wind up with nearly half a meter behind the starting spot!

I compete in local tournaments sometimes (mostly because it allows me to be out on the floor with the athletes, so I can be near my son) but of course T1 isn't competed at the dan ranks. But we do have a Poomsae Team at our school (3 hours of extra practice, every Sunday, and it is a tough practice) and sometimes I'll work out with the Poomsae Team...during those practices, we're trying to get EVERYTHING right, for all the forms...so T1 one has been bothering me for quite a while now. It's good to finally understand my error.

This guy is our coach, so it's a very detail-oriented 3-hours.

 

Gnarlie

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Yes exactly...I tend to treat apseogii like a natural "walking" gait, so there's a bit more width between my feet naturally...ten-twelve centimeters probably. Multiply that by 4 turns and you can easily wind up with nearly half a meter behind the starting spot!

I compete in local tournaments sometimes (mostly because it allows me to be out on the floor with the athletes, so I can be near my son) but of course T1 isn't competed at the dan ranks. But we do have a Poomsae Team at our school (3 hours of extra practice, every Sunday, and it is a tough practice) and sometimes I'll work out with the Poomsae Team...during those practices, we're trying to get EVERYTHING right, for all the forms...so T1 one has been bothering me for quite a while now. It's good to finally understand my error.

This guy is our coach, so it's a very detail-oriented 3-hours.

His apseogi is narrow like the definition and he turns on the ball of the foot. And yet he still ends up one foot length back. The only way is to be aware of it and to subtly work it in to the long stances and turns.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 
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NinjaChristian

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See third Pattern down performed by Naomi Perrine, top ITF competitor. Instructions for ITF Taekwondo Pattern 4 (Won-Hyo) - Free Videos & Instructions - Black Belt Wiki

Or performed by former ITF Technical director Park Jung Tae

Pattern: Won-Hyo Tul | Intrepid Taekwondo
this helps a lot. The step back too center line after move 25(the side kick) would solve all my problems. Well, mathematically that is. still have to make my stances even to end up directly on my starting point.
 
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