Trash talking

[Kittan Bachika]

A bunch of friends of mine had to deal with a trash talker. Guy comes in, watches a class, after the class, they asked how
he liked. Guy just starts talking trash about the teacher because the teacher just did Kata and he wasn't teaching anyone to fight.
The teacher was in the back office taking a call.

Now friends response were to politely nod their heads and then thank him for coming and that was it.

I am proud of my friends because they did not get angry and start something. Their teacher would have done the same since
he has always taught them to avoid conflicts. But no mistake, if that dummy was stupid enough to attack the teacher, he would have
found out why Kata is so dangerous. It was quite obvious that this guy knew anything about martial arts or else he would not say such
stupid things.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

A bunch of friends of mine had to deal with a trash talker. Guy comes in, watches a class, after the class, they asked how
he liked. Guy just starts talking trash about the teacher because the teacher just did Kata and he wasn't teaching anyone to fight.
The teacher was in the back office taking a call.

Now friends response were to politely nod their heads and then thank him for coming and that was it.

I am proud of my friends because they did not get angry and start something. Their teacher would have done the same since
he has always taught them to avoid conflicts. But no mistake, if that dummy was stupid enough to attack the teacher, he would have
found out why Kata is so dangerous. It was quite obvious that this guy knew anything about martial arts or else he would not say such
stupid things.

Good job on the part of your friends. And good job on the part of your instructor for imparting this to them. And I agree, those that truly know the correct bunkai of kata are not to be taken lightly!

 

[Cyriacus]

Very well handled. Calm Mind is a big part of Martial Arts in my mind, and their ability to just say "This guys an idiot, thats not our problem" demonstrates how aware of what theyve learned they are.

Thumbs up to them!

 

[Blade96]

silly little peep.

not hard to tell he doesn't know his ma's.

 

[Flea]

He's just insecure. Maybe he wants to initiate a monkey dance but knows he can't follow through?

Sounds like you and your friends were right on the money by not responding. I think the guy would benefit a lot from training ... somewhere else.

 

[Kittan Bachika]

Good job on the part of your friends. And good job on the part of your instructor for imparting this to them. And I agree, those that truly know the correct bunkai of kata are not to be taken lightly!

Their instructor has been doing martial arts has had his share of fights. He wants to make sure his students do not have the same experience.
I remember a more nicer debate between a black belt in GoJu Ryu and a guy who did not think much of Kata. So the Goju Ryu black performed a kata and explained the bunkai. The guy shut up real quick when he realized that the black belt could do some serious damage to a person with the kata.

Very well handled. Calm Mind is a big part of Martial Arts in my mind, and their ability to just say "This guys an idiot, thats not our problem" demonstrates how aware of what theyve learned they are.

Thumbs up to them!

They are good guys and that dummy is very lucky.
But there are martial artists who do not think like that and if even the slightest insult is enough to set them off.
That dummy has no idea what type of trouble he is going get into if he keeps being a jerk. Sooner or later he is going to run into a school that
will feel disrespected and invite him on their floor.

silly little peep.

not hard to tell he doesn't know his ma's.

I think problem is the what is on television. Don't get me wrong. I enjoy watching MMA and I have a lot respect for MMA students.
But I think when some people watch MMA and compare it with traditional arts, that's where the trouble starts. MMA is pretty straight forward with the techniques.
So when someone sees a kata they are probably wondering how can someone fight with this? And instead of trying to figure it out, they disrespect it.

 

[Buka]

Your school handled that properly. Nicely done.

 

[Flea]

Speaking of keeping one's ego in check ...

As one whose art doesn't involve kata, I'm going to reach for my dunce cap and ask. I have a vague idea what it is from conversations here and watching videos. But having never practiced them myself, I don't really understand the purpose. Anyone care to enlighten me?

 

[Cyriacus]

Speaking of keeping one's ego in check ...

As one whose art doesn't involve kata, I'm going to reach for my dunce cap and ask. I have a vague idea what it is from conversations here and watching videos. But having never practiced them myself, I don't really understand the purpose. Anyone care to enlighten me?

If im not mistaken, its like a combination 1-Step Sparring and Patterns, in most other Martial Arts; Only not.
Its a Self Defence tactic, anyway.

I too would like an answer!

 

[Blade96]

I think problem is the what is on television. Don't get me wrong. I enjoy watching MMA and I have a lot respect for MMA students.
But I think when some people watch MMA and compare it with traditional arts, that's where the trouble starts. MMA is pretty straight forward with the techniques.
So when someone sees a kata they are probably wondering how can someone fight with this? And instead of trying to figure it out, they disrespect it.

Yes, TV doesnt do a good job of explaining MA's, does it.

Speaking of keeping one's ego in check ...

As one whose art doesn't involve kata, I'm going to reach for my dunce cap and ask. I have a vague idea what it is from conversations here and watching videos. But having never practiced them myself, I don't really understand the purpose. Anyone care to enlighten me?

Kata is a series of techniques where you are 'fighting' an opponent, imaginary of course. So you take those blocks kicks stances whatever and make a sequence with them where you're pretending to fight. Teaches grace, balance, coordination, and how to use the blocks and kicks and stances you learned and what each movement of the kata means (called bunkai) You also learn things like how to hold yourself, move your hips, for example, and using the hips properly helps you punch and kick better and stronger.

I'm on my third kata of shotokan karate (heian sandan) and loving it with each one i'm doing.

If im not mistaken, its like a combination 1-Step Sparring and Patterns, in most other Martial Arts; Only not.
Its a Self Defence tactic, anyway.

I too would like an answer!

Kitten (I know your named with an a but i like kittens hehe) I am proud of your friends. They handled that well and did not start something with him over whether kata is good or not. They mightn't of convinced him anyways, so useless argument, hell, there're are experienced MA on another forum i post on who are still convinced kata sucks. and they are experienced Martial artists! Friends did the right thing by not even starting with that. Of course Buddy could use some lessons on thinking he knows if something is even good or not when he doesnt know anything about it.

 

[oftheherd1]

I first studied TKD. Naturally we practised kata. What we weren't told was why we did. It took me years to realize it was mock combat, often mock combat against multiple attackers. In Hapkido, or at least the Hapkido I studied, we do not use kata, but techniques. That is we are attacked in a specific manner, and learn defenses. There are techniques in the kata, but they aren't always know to teachers. That is a shame.

 

[mook jong man]

In the Wing Chun system there are only three empty hand forms and these can be thought of as being like a 'living text book' as they contain the core techniques and principles of the Wing Chun system .

As opposed to being a set of choreographed movements against an imaginary opponent , they are more designed as a set of exercises to develop tendon strength and ingrain the concept of simultaneous counter attack using the centreline.

 

[seasoned]

In the Wing Chun system there are only three empty hand forms and these can be thought of as being like a 'living text book' as they contain the core techniques and principles of the Wing Chun system .

As opposed to being a set of choreographed movements against an imaginary opponent , they are more designed as a set of exercises to develop tendon strength and ingrain the concept of simultaneous counter attack using the centreline.

This would be the same with any kata based martial art......
You are learning principles of movement within techniques, which makes for a never ending well to draw from.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Speaking of keeping one's ego in check ...

As one whose art doesn't involve kata, I'm going to reach for my dunce cap and ask. I have a vague idea what it is from conversations here and watching videos. But having never practiced them myself, I don't really understand the purpose. Anyone care to enlighten me?

There are two types of kata (also called forms, hyung etc). The first is a series of movements that someone memorizes so they can get their next colored belt rank or stripe. They have no idea of what they're really doing, just that it gets them to the next rank every few months. It's boring, but required. But we can always put it to music and compete for a nice shiny medal or trophy.

The other type of kata is a serious catalog of techniques that form the basis of the system. It involves principles involving striking or kicking (on the surface) but also locks, throws, chokes etc from a standing, kneeling or ground position. Bunkai is the individual break down of movements within the kata for individual drills. While a kata in and of itself is a solo drill, the bunkai can be used against resisting opponents.

Ironically, the two types involve the same kata but with a completely different understanding.

 

[Kittan Bachika]

Speaking of keeping one's ego in check ...

As one whose art doesn't involve kata, I'm going to reach for my dunce cap and ask. I have a vague idea what it is from conversations here and watching videos. But having never practiced them myself, I don't really understand the purpose. Anyone care to enlighten me?

Blade pretty much nails it.

Yes, TV doesnt do a good job of explaining MA's, does it.



Kata is a series of techniques where you are 'fighting' an opponent, imaginary of course. So you take those blocks kicks stances whatever and make a sequence with them where you're pretending to fight. Teaches grace, balance, coordination, and how to use the blocks and kicks and stances you learned and what each movement of the kata means (called bunkai) You also learn things like how to hold yourself, move your hips, for example, and using the hips properly helps you punch and kick better and stronger.

I'm on my third kata of shotokan karate (heian sandan) and loving it with each one i'm doing.

I just want to get something clear I am not being disrespectful to non kata based or saying kata based arts are better.
I have seen this thing happen Aikido which has no kata. And what I mean is that they have do not have any one person forms. As far as I know.
It gets annoying because I hear some people saying bad things about Aikido because there is no contact or strikes or whatever. And I don't do Aikido.
But I know that someone who does Aikdio can pretty much take you apart within a blink of an eye.

The problem is that there are people out there who need to figure out what's up and instead of being a big mouth.

 

[Tez3]

Speaking of keeping one's ego in check ...

As one whose art doesn't involve kata, I'm going to reach for my dunce cap and ask. I have a vague idea what it is from conversations here and watching videos. But having never practiced them myself, I don't really understand the purpose. Anyone care to enlighten me?

Iain Abernethy is the best person I know to explain Bunkai and Kata, uses of! Have a look at his other articles too on martial arts.
http://iainabernethy.co.uk/article/what-are-true-applications-kata

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Iain Abernethy is the best person I know to explain Bunkai and Kata, uses of! Have a look at his other articles too on martial arts.
http://iainabernethy.co.uk/article/what-are-true-applications-kata

+1 Tez! Iain has an excellent website with a wealth of information.

 

[Thesemindz]

I had something similar happen to me once. We had a new student in his first class. He had a second black in another style but he was starting as a white belt in our school and he couldn't keep up. With the other white belts. We paired him with the most helpful instructors and tried to work with him, but he couldn't understand simple blocks in the air. At the end of class I went over to him to give him the first day yada yada, welcome, great job, wasn't that fun, see you wednesday, make sure you practice, and before I can even open my mouth he turns to me and blurts out, "You guys don't even know what you're doing."

I stood there kinda stunned and asked if there was anything I could help him with or if he had any questions and he just crossed his arms over his chest and said, "You guys don't know what you're doing. That guy doesn't know what he's doing." He pointed at one of our top instructors who'd been trying to work with him during Star Block and then he turned away and stormed off the floor in to the office and told the head instructor he quit and stormed out the door. And that was pretty much that.

He never came back and we never heard from him again. It was clear to me during class that he thought his other black belt made him better than the other beginners, but it was equally clear to me that the other beginners were already better at karate. I don't know who gave the kid rank, maybe it was one of those kiddy belts, but he didn't look like any second black to me. Certainly not in our school. I think he couldn't handle the adjustment. Empty his cup so to speak.

Oh well. It happens. But there was another lesson for me. Because I went in to the advanced class next immediately after that conversation and I didn't realize how upset I was. I ended up running the class in to the ground with calisthenics and air karate and body work, and I walloped one of my students too hard with a punch to the ribs. That woke me up and I apologized to him and then calmed down, but I was keyed up. I didn't realize it at the time, but I was really upset that he had acted like that. I felt like we'd been really gracious and tried to work with him, like we would any beginner on their first night, and instead of opening his mind he just threw it in our faces and stormed out. I was hurt, because I knew damn well that we knew what we were doing, and subconsciously I wanted to "prove" it by training way too hard.

So there was a lot to learn that night. And the advanced kids need some good hard shugyo from time to time anyway. It can be hard when someone comes in to your house and disrespects what you do. But you just have to keep moving forward. If they're right, learn from it. If they're wrong, it's their loss. You keep doing karate.


-Rob

 

[Blade96]

Noobies can be ridiculous. The sensei I said grades and promotes their partner, well that partner thinks that because said partner got a silver medal in a first tournament and beat a yellow belt and blue belt in kata well that meant Partner was ready to be promoted. Heck, I got a GOLD medal in my first tournament as a white belt, and high marks for heian shodan and I never thought like that. Arrogance. That's what it is. In my opinion anyway.

 

[Kittan Bachika]

I had something similar happen to me once. We had a new student in his first class. He had a second black in another style but he was starting as a white belt in our school and he couldn't keep up. With the other white belts. We paired him with the most helpful instructors and tried to work with him, but he couldn't understand simple blocks in the air. At the end of class I went over to him to give him the first day yada yada, welcome, great job, wasn't that fun, see you wednesday, make sure you practice, and before I can even open my mouth he turns to me and blurts out, "You guys don't even know what you're doing."

I stood there kinda stunned and asked if there was anything I could help him with or if he had any questions and he just crossed his arms over his chest and said, "You guys don't know what you're doing. That guy doesn't know what he's doing." He pointed at one of our top instructors who'd been trying to work with him during Star Block and then he turned away and stormed off the floor in to the office and told the head instructor he quit and stormed out the door. And that was pretty much that.

He never came back and we never heard from him again. It was clear to me during class that he thought his other black belt made him better than the other beginners, but it was equally clear to me that the other beginners were already better at karate. I don't know who gave the kid rank, maybe it was one of those kiddy belts, but he didn't look like any second black to me. Certainly not in our school. I think he couldn't handle the adjustment. Empty his cup so to speak.

Oh well. It happens. But there was another lesson for me. Because I went in to the advanced class next immediately after that conversation and I didn't realize how upset I was. I ended up running the class in to the ground with calisthenics and air karate and body work, and I walloped one of my students too hard with a punch to the ribs. That woke me up and I apologized to him and then calmed down, but I was keyed up. I didn't realize it at the time, but I was really upset that he had acted like that. I felt like we'd been really gracious and tried to work with him, like we would any beginner on their first night, and instead of opening his mind he just threw it in our faces and stormed out. I was hurt, because I knew damn well that we knew what we were doing, and subconsciously I wanted to "prove" it by training way too hard.

So there was a lot to learn that night. And the advanced kids need some good hard shugyo from time to time anyway. It can be hard when someone comes in to your house and disrespects what you do. But you just have to keep moving forward. If they're right, learn from it. If they're wrong, it's their loss. You keep doing karate.


-Rob

Is this the star block?
http://youtu.be/6fA0-P4RDu4

If it is, you are better off not having this headcase in your class. It is plain as day what this is and it would be very effective in self defense. And I have never trained in Kenpo.
If he had stuck around and still had that attitude, it would have been bad. Who wants to train with someone like that? He would have been very popular
during sparring practice. He would figure out real quick which guys did not know what they are doing.

The only way to get through to this kid is have him watch the wax on and wax off scenes in "The Karate Kid".

Any of us would have felt the same way and reacted the same way.
At least you recognized, "Oh crap, this isn't cool. I shouldn't let this get to me." and you had the strength of character to apologize to your student.