Martial arts and the male ego on the outside

[Damian Mavis]

Ya that would work. It would sure surprise the hell outta me to see that kinda resolve. It's taken me years to not fear pain no matter how excrutiating...it would freak me right out to see a non martial artist do it.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[Zoran]

Originally posted by Cthulhu



I've heard an account from a reliable source of a fella who had a wristlock put on him by a martial artist. Said fella broke his own wrist to get out of the lock and proceeded to beat the martial artist unconcious.

What's worse are people like that with years of MA training. I've actually met (not fought thank God) 1 or 2 like that.

If that person comes looking for me, you'll find me on a roof with a high power rifle with a scope.
:biggun:

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Damian Mavis

Earlier you stated that you had little or no martial arts experince?

It's great that we have very experienced people here and also that we are attracting those new to the arts! It can be hard for those who have never worked with a jujutsu style technique to see how it could be pulled off against a full-speed punch. Can anyone suggest a website with some good clips of such techniques being done at speed?

 

[Carbon]

I'm just saying just because i have no martial expierience means I can't take pain? Thats generalizing the abilites of people who take MA are able to do anything and regular people who don't train can't. I'm saying since a brawl isn't pattern'd punching. Its the guy swing as fast as he can aiming at your face. Now your telling me you can intercept this punch? Also if you have a lock put on you, I would rather break my wrist and beat the MA unconsious then let him continue to have me in the wrist lock and do whatever he wanted to me aka punch me in the head or face with spare hands and legs. It just depends the outcome of the fight is the same if you don't move or if you try to move and don't break the wrist lock. Even though I may not be a MA and you are calling me a back seat MA? I mean you've been training for 12 years? WOOPEDY DOO You telling me that I know nothing just because all I have done is read is ridiculous since reading is where most people's knowledge comes from. Also someone who has been training for 80 years could inturn call you a back seat MA couldn't he? Also practicing in so many styles I know people try to become a well rounded fighter, but if you aren't able to utilize the skills you've gotten from a particular style since you've only been practicing it for acouple years what does that tell you? I've seen fights where boxers who have boxed there whole lives go up against a MA who has tried to round himself, want to guess who won? The boxer since his agility and speed alone was able to overpower anything the MA threw. The only way the MA could ever win was by doing leg attacks since a boxer isn't prepared for it. Either way IMHO sticking to a single style and atleast learning it like you know english would be more beneficial.

 

[Battousai]

Umm,
I don't think this stuff about arm bares and fast punches really has a point on a forum. Neither can prove their point (to the other), all that there is is alot of words.
Becareful so that we all don't fall into the male ego on the inside of the martial arts.

 

[Jay Bell]

I talked to my teacher for a spell last night...we had a really good conversation about this very thing.

He said, "Martial arts is about the male ego. Even if we have a school with nothing but females, it becomes their version of the male ego."

I don't want people to get the wrong idea here...it's not sexist the way it was told. It's just that very male based ego tends to surface when dealing with martial arts.

Carbon,

On the wrist lock/intercept note....it all depends on what the scale is of things. If someone is looking to end the situation and they take your wrist from you (with a level of permanancy) it's over. I'm sorry...but pain tollerance out the yang won't save you from that type of damage. I've had outside wrist locks (omote gyaku/kotogaeishi type) that have knocked together the ends of my forearm bones at the elbow...and that was training. To even attempt, regardless of pain tollerance, that one could deal with that amount of damage and continue to go onward is silly....I think that is why people are bringing up the fact that you haven't trained being a factor.

As a side note, no damage was done to my arm...which shows an incredible amount of control....yet at the same time being on the edge of crippling.

On the topic of intercepting punches. Well, lets look at what it takes to remove yourself from a powerline. A fist, typically, is no wider then five inches. A vertical fist even less. That's how much one has to move to be out of the line of fire. It's physics. If one takes their fist from where it lies, closes the distance and fires out, that's a much greater path of motion then moving your body 4-5 inches to not get hit. What's more important, not getting hit or "intercepting the punch"?

Let's talk about boxing. Boxers are *very* difficult to deal with on a hand to hand level. They are very fast in how the deliver strikes....they spend their lives punching. So let's look at the downside to boxing (there is always one to everything). They strike with taped hands to prevent injury and more times then not have 8-16 ounces of padding to go even beyond that. You have no idea how many boxers I've seen break their hands in street fights. Beyond that, boxers punch from the hip/shoulder/spine rotation. I'll leave that one as is..

The only way the MA could ever win was by doing leg attacks since a boxer isn't prepared for it.

That statement alone explains volumes about how much you truly understand of real combat.

Either way IMHO sticking to a single style and atleast learning it like you know english would be more beneficial.

Hands down, I agree. Oftentimes, though, it takes someone searching a great deal to find an art that "fits" and takes them to a better place in the world. I spent a decade myself.

 

[Damian Mavis]

Carbon... paragraphs are your friend. It's hard to understand what your posting because it's all bunched up together.

Ok, on a more serious note.....why am I the only one arguing with this guy? This is a martial arts board and Carbon's saying all martial arts are basically useless... this is exactly the kind of guy this thread was started about! haha

Anyway, Carbon..... I didn't move around and try a little of everything, I train full time every day in various martial arts. I'm able to do this because I don't have a day job...I run my school in the evenings and train during most of my free time. I never stopped any of the martial arts I've joined over the past 12 years. Why do you keep making these grand assumptions? And I hate to break it to you but if you don't train in martial arts you can "guess" and "surmise" what would work and what wouldn't work all you want but you are basically talking out of your a*s. Do you watch football and complain how the quarterback isn't playing right when you have no experience actually playing the game yourself?! That's what makes you a back seat martial artist. No experience but lots of opinion.

I'm not a complete fool. I know most people have already guessed your either 14 years old or "special" and so aren't bothering to respond to you. But I just couldn't help myself. I box full contact at least once a week and I know full well the advantages and disadvantages of fighting on the street from a boxing perspective.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Damian Mavis

Ok, on a more serious note.....why am I the only one arguing with this guy?

Indeed, I think that this question merits additional consideration. Why are you the only one arguing with this guy?

 

[Damian Mavis]

Ya I guess your right Arnisador..... I'll drop it.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[Damian Mavis]

Bleh, I just read the rules of this forum and see that arguing and such is frowned upon (which explains Arnisadors post) so I apologise to the readers of this forum and even to you Carbon....on the street I'm able to hold my temper extremely well, but when an anonymous person calls me a liar I guess I forget all about control. Sorry.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Its not so much argueing, but when thing go past a certain point. When we see things getting close, we try to defuse things before something explodes.

Keeps it a bit nicer, and usually helps us avoid having to put on the "mod" hats.

Problem with the printed media, is sometimes we lose the "tone" and things just come across wrong. Things are taken a lot "harder" than we mean them sometimes.

There've been a lot of good points raised here. Just gotta keep the tempers in check. I always recomend waiting a few hours and rereading things, rather than firing back right away. Sometimes I see a word I missed on the 2nd pass thru that clears things up.

Back on topic...Egos....I see it all the time. Kid who needs to prove he's as good as someone else, guy who wants to prove he can hack it, the gal who wants to bang with the guys to show she's not soft, etc. Egos tend to get people hurt, IMHO. I go in there to learn, and often times will sacrifice my time so I can help someone else who's newer get up to speed. If we leave the egos at the door, and just focus on what we are there for, wouldn't we all learn just that much more?

:asian:

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Carbon

You telling me that I know nothing just because all I have done is read is ridiculous since reading is where most people's knowledge comes from.

Reading is only one small piece of the puzzle my friend. If you
truly want to see the whole puzzle put together, you have to
get out there and DO.

"Try not. Do, or Do Not. There is no Try" - Yoda

 

[Klondike93]

"Try not. Do, or Do Not. There is no Try" - Yoda

:asian:

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I agree. I can read the books, and walk someone else thru a technique...or see it demonstrated enough to correct my partner, but it takes me about 2 hours minimum to get the flow of a technique down, and a couple weeks to really internalize it. Maybe its the biorhythm thing, or the fact that I'm cross training in a couple of arts (primarily modern arnis), or the trying to do 30 things at once, but it just doesn't sink in from watching or reading. My instructor (Tim Hartman) calls it mussle memory. Makes sence to me. Course, it helps that I show up awake sometimes.

 

[Carbon]

I see your points but I think that you misunderstood the analogy I was trying to make.

Calling me a 14 year old and making an assumption like that only shows that you are trying to get an off subject cheap blow because you think you are losing the arguement.

I never meant to imply that you are lying. I simply disagree with you about the way you train.

Let me put it in perspective for you the way my point of view is. If you are watching a movie and 10 minutes into the movie the movie switches over to another movie. And 10 minutes after that it switches to a different movie and 10 minutes after that it switches to a different movie.(All the styles you are taking are the movies) This is like your training and its very hard to understand complicated movies without watching the thing in its entirety and one sitting.

Now I compare this to your training becuase you claim to train in so many different styles every week and such and I think it would be harder for you to get the big picture with all the styles if you aren't completely devoting yourself to one style.

Also to answer the question about the Boxer and the MA this was a competition fight they did not like a street fight or anything. The boxer was winning and the MA had to start doing muay thai striking above the knee's to try and win. I didn't quite fully understnad your statement Jay bell when you said, "That statement alone explains volumes about how much you truly understand of real combat."

Also my expierience, yes I've trained in MA could compare like I said before when lets say you would argue with someone who has been training for 85 years about what would work in a fight and what wouldn't work. The expierience I have compared to you is the exact same as the expierience you have compared to the 85 year old. This is how it seems. You may think that just because I haven't gotten into lots of bar fights or that I don't train regularly at a dojo that I have no idea what its like to fight and that I have no idea how to fight and I have no idea what a wristlock is and I have no idea how to strike someone.

I'm also sorry to say that a wrist lock this is just my opinion so please don't get technical with me, I think that a wristlock would take to long to pull off since I think people try to move out of the way of a punch more often then put a wrist lock on. I've only seen those pulled off in movies, and usually looks very fake. Never in a UFC or NHB did a sumbission move come into play when they were standing up.

 

[Jay Bell]

Now I compare this to your training becuase you claim to train in so many different styles every week and such and I think it would be harder for you to get the big picture with all the styles if you aren't completely devoting yourself to one style.

I'm confused as to who this was pointed at?

I'm also sorry to say that a wrist lock this is just my opinion so please don't get technical with me

No problem...I won't prove my point in the future so that you can stick to your guns.

I've only seen those pulled off in movies, and usually looks very fake.

Movies. I'm assuming somehow that the fight scenes in "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" did not look fake?

Never in a UFC or NHB did a sumbission move come into play when they were standing up.

UFC and NHB also have rules. Rules which were put into place to allow groundfighters to shine and glorify themselves and their limited arts.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Jay Bell

UFC and NHB also have rules. Rules which were put into place to allow groundfighters to shine and glorify themselves and their limited arts.

Amen to that!!!!!!

 

[Damian Mavis]

The post was directed at me.

You did imply I was lying by saying my story was B.S.

I apologised to you already...I was apologising for saying anything negative, that includes assuming you were 14.

Your post is much easier to read now! Good job!

I am a martial arts expert, it is not hard for me to "get the bigger picture" by training in multiple martial arts. Why do I claim to be an expert? I'm not an expert in ALL the arts I train in, I spent the first 8 years training in only Tae Kwon Do and Kung Fu. It was a Tae Kwon Do school but the instructor had taken kung fu for 8 years himslef before taking TKD and so the TKD he taught was a bit of a hybrid TKD/KungFu. So I did stick to one style for a long time. I still train in TKD. After 12 years I have finally reached a state in TKD were I feel I have expertise in the art. I'm trying to understand if you think I should continue only training in TKD for my whole life? 4 years ago I stopped working days and started training in various other martial arts full time. That means I do martial arts EVERY day. Training during the early part of the day and teaching in the later part. If I was only taking a class here and a class there then I would agree with you about not getting to grasp various arts. But I do it every day.

Everybody is cross training in multiple martial arts now (well I mean lots of people)..... there is not a magical martial art that all the no holds barred fighters are training in. The ones with Ju jujitsu background are training in boxing and or Muay thai to help them in the ring, the ones with a striking background are training in shooto or jujitsu, and so on. It's quiet common now, I am not the pioneer of cross training.

Now I posted this before about the guy who threw a punch at me....but I'll post it again. The person who threw a punch at me and I intercepted his punch and quickly put him in an armbar/wristlock was just a regular person with NO martial training of any kind. That means his punch was (1) slower than what I was used to getting thrown at me (2) wider and sloppier than what Im used to (3) easy to manipulate....and the guy himslef was of weak character, so when I executed the lock he immediately squeeled and asked me to stop. The lock is to cause pain BUT if you apply more pressure to the lock it will break bone....most locks are like that. So what I did wasn't that amazng or hard to believe. If it had been a trained fighter I doubt I would have been able to execute a lock, just either blocked or evaded and hopefully saved my butt for another second. Which is what I normally do in the ring all the time.

I'm not trying to antagonise you Carbon, just hoping my detailed description helps you understand what I was talking about a little better.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[Carbon]

Yes that clarified alot for me and it makes me laugh everytime I hear about the guy squealing, hehe it reminds me about people at my school.

Also Jay Bell just becuase I say movie doesn't mean I'm talking about teh fantasy kung fu movies. I was thinking about the stephen segal movies since he is aikido or whatever his style is that he does a ton of locks and throws and that they look fake yes and he is usually fighting drunk people I know :0