Training In Long Low Stances

dvcochran

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There are a couple reasons to use low stances. The obvious one is that they make your legs work harder and you develop strength and endurance in your leg muscles.

However, this is not the only reason and in my opinion, is not the most important reason.

Stance training is less about the stance itself, and more about the transitions from one stance to another. This transition is where you do the actual work of creating power for your technique. It is the change from one position to the other that matters. The stances themselves can be seen as simply beginning or ending postures. With some exceptions, they generally arent terribly useful all by themselves. But as I say above, the transition from one to another gives you an opportunity to accomplish a task and to do so with a great deal of power.

That transition is where you connect the lower body with the upper body, and deliver your technique with the power created by that union.

Using low stances exaggerates that connection for purposes of practice and development. In a real fight you do not need to use those low stances. However, having learned to develop your power by using low (exaggerated) stances, you can still generate similar power with higher, more relaxed stances because you have learned how to effectively unify the upper and lower body into a unified movement.

Stance training is about transitions, and low stances with transitions is a great training method. Simply doing everything in low stances without paying attention to the transitions is missing most of the point.

Could not be said better.
 
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PhotonGuy

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Ok, to test your theory, why would someone want to transition from one to the other? Either way?
Maybe they start with a style that uses long low stances and then later on they train in another style that uses higher shorter stances. Maybe their very style might use a combination of low and high stances. The art of Goju Ryu uses both the horse stance, which is a very low stance, and the sanchin stance, which is a high stance. When sparring you might not be standing so low but with kata you might get really low at times.
 

Flying Crane

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Maybe they start with a style that uses long low stances and then later on they train in another style that uses higher shorter stances. Maybe their very style might use a combination of low and high stances. The art of Goju Ryu uses both the horse stance, which is a very low stance, and the sanchin stance, which is a high stance. When sparring you might not be standing so low but with kata you might get really low at times.
Sure, but WHY? Im trying to suggest that you think closely about what you are doing so that you understand why you do what you do.
 
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PhotonGuy

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Sure, but WHY? Im trying to suggest that you think closely about what you are doing so that you understand why you do what you do.
Why would somebody use both low stances and high stances? Does it matter? The point is that if you practice with low stances it makes it that much easier to use high stances.
 

Flying Crane

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Why would somebody use both low stances and high stances? Does it matter? The point is that if you practice with low stances it makes it that much easier to use high stances.
Well if you are doing it, then it certainly ought to matter to you. If you are using both, then you ought to understand why. If you cannot articulate why, then you do not understand, and you are at the phase of mimicry. You want to move beyond that so that you understand why you do what you do in your training.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Sure, but WHY? Im trying to suggest that you think closely about what you are doing so that you understand why you do what you do.
Same reason as you train to kick high but you use low kick in fighting. From a wrestling point of view, when you use low stance, your opponent's leading leg is just near by your hand.
 
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PhotonGuy

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Same reason as you train to kick high but you use low kick in fighting. From a wrestling point of view, when you use low stance, your opponent's leading leg is just near by your hand.
Well put.
 
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PhotonGuy

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Well if you are doing it, then it certainly ought to matter to you. If you are using both, then you ought to understand why. If you cannot articulate why, then you do not understand, and you are at the phase of mimicry. You want to move beyond that so that you understand why you do what you do in your training.
You're missing the point.
 

drop bear

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Why would somebody use both low stances and high stances? Does it matter? The point is that if you practice with low stances it makes it that much easier to use high stances.

To remove some of the mysterious mystery here. There are a few simple reasons.

If someone is trying to hip throw you dropping your hips past theirs is a counter.
If someone is trying to pull you down a low stance is a counter to that.

And from a striking perspective you are in a better posture if you change levels. Eg. Body punching rather than breaking at the hip. Because your hip is underneath you.

A nifty trick for the thai grapple is to instead of trying to pull your head back up. You leave it there and drop your hips until they are under your head.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Low stance is used in the throwing art and not used in the striking art. If you want to use your hand to grab your opponent's leg, you have to be low.

firemancarry2.jpg


Without low horse stance, there will be no hip throw.

 

Gerry Seymour

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Why would somebody use both low stances and high stances? Does it matter? The point is that if you practice with low stances it makes it that much easier to use high stances.
I think understanding why something is done is about as important as being able to do it.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Low stance is used in the throwing art and not used in the striking art. If you want to use your hand to grab your opponent's leg, you have to be low.

firemancarry2.jpg


Without low horse stance, there will be no hip throw.

Actually, a hip throw can be done from a narrow stance, as well. And from a high horse stance. The latter requires getting them off-balance before they get lower (or @drop bear's solution blocks it).
 

drop bear

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I think understanding why something is done is about as important as being able to do it.

People over think these things as well. Bunkai where they are trying to justify every movement and wind up just looking silly.
 

JowGaWolf

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Low stance is used in the throwing art and not used in the striking art. If you want to use your hand to grab your opponent's leg, you have to be low.
lol no one will believe you except for me lol.
 

JowGaWolf

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Actually, a hip throw can be done from a narrow stance, as well. And from a high horse stance. The latter requires getting them off-balance before they get lower (or @drop bear's solution blocks it).
I think he's only referring to the low stances that are used in Kung Fu, The low stance that kung fu people usually say that they only do to make the legs strong. For example, people say no one will fight like this. But if you understand how to use the low kung fu stance then you'll use it every chance you get. #1 Rule. Never let a BJJ or Wrestler get under you. Kung Fu low stances have the same effect. The benefit is that not only is the stance low, but you are in excellent position to punch and use other strikes. The down site is that your legs will burn energy like crazy. The weaker the legs are the sooner the body burns that energy up.
firemancarry2.jpg
 

skribs

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People over think these things as well. Bunkai where they are trying to justify every movement and wind up just looking silly.

I think the problem is you're training the movement and want it to mean something. I've got a similar issue with a lot of the techniques in the Taekwondo forms. A lot of the moves that appear quite consistently are abstract (at least to my understanding) and you want to see the benefit of training that movement over and over.

Starting with our green belt form, I've learned a total of 15 forms. 14 of those include the same technique that doesn't quite make sense to me. (I've brought it up in other threads, no need to rehash it here). The point is, since I've spent the last 4 years doing this technique over and over and over again, I want to see that it's been worth it to train that technique.

I think a lot of these cringy Bunkai videos are just that. "I've been doing this movement every other day for the last several years, and I still am not sure exactly why I'm doing it this way." So they try and try to figure it out, and they get a "best result" answer instead of a perfect answer.
 

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