Are low stances useless?

[zzj]

Many of us who train in traditional MA's, especially Chinese/Japanese styles would be conditioned to maintain a medium to low stance in our forms. However, in actual sparring very little if any of these stances would be used, and we do not see much low stances being used in other styles or in competitions such as UFC. What then is the use of the low stance? In my MA, extreme importance is given to maintaining balance at all times and that relates back to the adoption of low stances; in matches within the same style the low (or medium) stance is actually used, such as in the example below...

(punches to the head are not allowed, just in case anyone is wondering..)

Are low stances, which are the core elements in many traditional styles, actually useful in free for all fighting/sparring? Are the more contemporary stand up stances simple more mobile or are they intrinsically less stable (more prone to takedowns), can low stances be a viable alternative?

 

[K-man]

Stances like all other movements in kata (or forms) have their applications. A good teacher should be showing you those applications.
:asian:

 

[Dirty Dog]

Low stances have their place. As K-man said, the specifics will vary from art to art.
In general, however, I'd say that it's pretty safe to say that regardless of the art, the low stances practiced in forms build flexibility and strength in the thighs and hips. That's important in any stance. And of course if you were to, say, duck under a high strike, the practice moving in the low stance would be useful.
More specific applications would depend on your system, of course.

 

[MartialMellow]

Since I am a beginner, I do not know the answer to the question. Would center of gravity have a part in it?

 

[drop bear]

It can stop your front leg being attacked with throws.

Rob gruffrida sits pretty heavy on his front foot.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7tUFsEodN1M

 

[Marnetmar]

One can counter a grappler's takedown by stepping into a side horse stance, or by placing your front foot behind you and shifting into a reverse archer/bow stance.

 

[K-man]

Since I am a beginner, I do not know the answer to the question. Would center of gravity have a part in it?

Your centre of gravity is very important. Lowering your centre by bending your knees slightly gives you much greater stability and the ability to move quickly. I believe that when you are fighting your feet go where your feet go. I would never be trying to adopt any particular stance with the possible exception of neko ashi dachi (cat stance) which has strategic use. To me the rest of the low stances are all used for throws and takedowns.
:asian:

 

[Dirty Dog]

Since I am a beginner, I do not know the answer to the question. Would center of gravity have a part in it?

Absolutely. Lowering your center is one of the most basic methods of preventing your opponent from throwing you.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Are low stances, which are the core elements in many traditional styles, actually useful in free for all fighting/sparring?

If you are 6 feet and your opponent is 5 feet, when you try to throw your opponent over your head with your hip throw or your shoulder throw, you will need to get into a low horse stance.

[video]http://judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/ogoshi.htm[/video]

 

[MAist25]

Yes, low stances such as the front stance or horse stance are mostly used when executing throws, takedowns, or joint locks. They are absolutely important to learn, maybe not to use in a sparring/competition setting, but they will be used in more common self defense situations.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Most of the throws will require you to stay in a very low bow-arrow stance in order to maintain your own balance.

 

[qianfeng]

The low stances are generally used for conditioning and throws and when used are a bit higher than when practiced.
op
And wat is with the wulindahui/ wushu masters vid? The old episodes like these one the winners are genearlly determind beforehand and the fighters let the the determined winner beat them art so its more like a resistant partner demo more than a fight lol.

 

[zzj]

Stances like all other movements in kata (or forms) have their applications. A good teacher should be showing you those applications.
:asian:

Yes, that much is true, but what I meant is adopting a medium to low stance as your default posture when facing an opponent. Most of the forms and applications I have been taught are executed with such stance and we are taught to move on and out of positions swiftly while maintaining low stance.

Low stances have their place. As K-man said, the specifics will vary from art to art.
In general, however, I'd say that it's pretty safe to say that regardless of the art, the low stances practiced in forms build flexibility and strength in the thighs and hips. That's important in any stance. And of course if you were to, say, duck under a high strike, the practice moving in the low stance would be useful.
More specific applications would depend on your system, of course.

Training in low stances really help to develop awesome lower body strength, my teacher is practically immovable, however, once he moves it is deceptively quick, even when maintaining a low stance. Seems like a viable way to move when facing an opponent, that's why I'm not sure why it is not used more widely.

One can counter a grappler's takedown by stepping into a side horse stance, or by placing your front foot behind you and shifting into a reverse archer/bow stance.

My suspicion is keeping a low stance would deter your opponent from going for a take down in the first place.. unless you're already in a clinch. This is also one reason i suspect, that so many fights in MMA go to the ground so easily...

If you are 6 feet and your opponent is 5 feet, when you try to throw your opponent over your head with your hip throw or your shoulder throw, you will need to get into a low horse stance.

For throws, normally the lower the better, my favourite throw in Judo was ippon seoi nage, and it was extremely effective when you went low.

[video]http://judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/ogoshi.htm[/video]

The low stances are generally used for conditioning and throws and when used are a bit higher than when practiced.
op
And wat is with the wulindahui/ wushu masters vid? The old episodes like these one the winners are genearlly determind beforehand and the fighters let the the determined winner beat them art so its more like a resistant partner demo more than a fight lol.

Didn't hear that about Wulin Dahui, just thought that the contestants were horribly mismatched. Not sure if the results were fixed though, could be more the case of lower level contestants felling intimidated by the prospect of facing their masters / master level opponents and the tacit cultural understanding that you do not go all out on your masters / master level seniors.

 

[zzj]

Stances like all other movements in kata (or forms) have their applications. A good teacher should be showing you those applications.
:asian:

Yes, that much is true, but what I meant is adopting a medium to low stance as your default posture when facing an opponent. Most of the forms and applications I have been taught are executed with such stance and we are taught to move on and out of positions swiftly while maintaining low stance.

Low stances have their place. As K-man said, the specifics will vary from art to art.
In general, however, I'd say that it's pretty safe to say that regardless of the art, the low stances practiced in forms build flexibility and strength in the thighs and hips. That's important in any stance. And of course if you were to, say, duck under a high strike, the practice moving in the low stance would be useful.
More specific applications would depend on your system, of course.

Training in low stances really help to develop awesome lower body strength, my teacher is practically immovable, however, once he moves it is deceptively quick, even when maintaining a low stance. Seems like a viable way to move when facing an opponent, that's why I'm not sure why it is not used more widely.

One can counter a grappler's takedown by stepping into a side horse stance, or by placing your front foot behind you and shifting into a reverse archer/bow stance.

My suspicion is keeping a low stance would deter your opponent from going for a take down in the first place.. unless you're already in a clinch. This is also one reason i suspect, that so many fights in MMA go to the ground so easily...

If you are 6 feet and your opponent is 5 feet, when you try to throw your opponent over your head with your hip throw or your shoulder throw, you will need to get into a low horse stance.

[video]http://judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/ogoshi.htm[/video]

For throws, normally the lower the better, my favourite throw in Judo was ippon seoi nage, and it was extremely effective when you went low.

The low stances are generally used for conditioning and throws and when used are a bit higher than when practiced.
op
And wat is with the wulindahui/ wushu masters vid? The old episodes like these one the winners are genearlly determind beforehand and the fighters let the the determined winner beat them art so its more like a resistant partner demo more than a fight lol.

Didn't hear that about Wulin Dahui, just thought that the contestants were horribly mismatched. Not sure if the results were fixed though, could be more the case of lower level contestants felling intimidated by the prospect of facing their masters / master level opponents and the tacit cultural understanding that you do not go all out on your masters / master level seniors.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Since I am a beginner, I do not know the answer to the question. Would center of gravity have a part in it?

Yes. I think the low stance, in my opinion, represents the idea that yow are going past the point of no return with your center of gravity. Why they teach it as a static position is beyond me, but in my system it is all about your center of gravity.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Also consider that is not possible to cover to the front or rear ( fall directly forward back, and catch your self with a step ) unless your knees are bent. If your knees are straight it is called walking. Try it.

 

[zzj]

Yes. I think the low stance, in my opinion, represents the idea that yow are going past the point of no return with your center of gravity. Why they teach it as a static position is beyond me, but in my system it is all about your center of gravity.

I do not know which MA teaches the low stance as a purely static position.. as far as I know, low stances are not supposed to be any more static than high, standing stances. In fact, static low stances are only practiced to strengthen and condition your thigh and lower leg muscles to the degree that they can move in a fluid manner even while maintaining a low stance.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I do not know which MA teaches the low stance as a purely static position.. as far as I know, low stances are not supposed to be any more static than high, standing stances. In fact, static low stances are only practiced to strengthen and condition your thigh and lower leg muscles to the degree that they can move in a fluid manner even while maintaining a low stance.

My point is that you should be fighting with it, but only as part of a larger process, which we call bow-ing, as opposed to achieving a bow.

 

[Touch Of Death]

My point is that you should be fighting with it, but only as part of a larger process, which we call bow-ing, as opposed to achieving a bow.

So this would look like somebody throwing a punch off the rear hand, and catching their momentum with a cover (step) forward off the rear foot.
Sean

 

[Touch Of Death]

I do not know which MA teaches the low stance as a purely static position.. as far as I know, low stances are not supposed to be any more static than high, standing stances. In fact, static low stances are only practiced to strengthen and condition your thigh and lower leg muscles to the degree that they can move in a fluid manner even while maintaining a low stance.

I agree you don't stand and trade punches out of a low stance, but I think you can use it in a fight.