Traditional Blocks

[8253]

Im not sure exactly what you disagree with. A block will work in a street fight to a certain degree. An upward block is an upward block and a low block is a low block, etc. Aside from the positional differences when starting to initiate the block, the block has the same basics.

 

[Doc]

... As far as American Kenpo goes, I dont really know a whole lot about it. I study Chinese Kenpo.

I see

I do believe that an upward block in the basic meaning in most MA's are started out the same, and i would say that also the rest of the basic block set start in the same manner.

Based on your knowledge of ....

It is the motion after the point of contact is made that defines the different theories of what should be done.

I'm afraid I'm lost. After you make contact, defines what you should have already done?

After all there is only so many ways to block, punch, kick, etc

Based on your knowledge of ...
Perhaps you could elaborate a bit more based on your expereince and knowledge in "Chinese Kenpo?"

 

[GAB]

Perhaps you could elaborate a bit more based on your expereince and knowledge in "Chinese Kenpo?"

Hi 8523,

The term "Chinese Kenpo" or "Chinese Karate". Is the rub, I think....

Book by Ed parker, Secrets of Chinese Karate, Got him into some trouble with the Chinese/Japanese... It depends on how anal you want to get...

The thought 'a block is a strike is a punch, is a punch is a strike is a block', maybe or not...

The word Bouquet is pronounced bouque or boo ka' so in the english language it is pronounced like the French want it pronounced, unless of course you no want to eat, the french fryed potato...or say it...

Iraq you understand? Forget all the other things that we have done with/or they have done for, such as our freedom in America...Sorry... 'Ramble me'.

Back to the subject, Traditional....Regards, Gary

PS: traditional goes back, what a generation or ?????

 

[OC Kid]

Would trad blocks work in a self defense situation..Yes. The way I was taught there is no difference between and block and a strike. Its the intent of the technique or how it is being used. In teaching my classes I will take a block such as a outside inward and show it/ teach it as a block, then I will demo and have the students practice it as a strike in a self defense situation.

Even a parry can be changed from a simple redirect to a knifehand/ palm heel strike.

Also I have taken Japanese Karate and EPAK (under Mr White) and the basic blocks are not different the blocks are esstentially the same.

 

[GAB]

Would trad blocks work in a self defense situation..Yes. The way I was taught there is no difference between and block and a strike. Its the intent of the technique or how it is being used. In teaching my classes I will take a block such as a outside inward and show it/ teach it as a block, then I will demo and have the students practice it as a strike in a self defense situation.

Even a parry can be changed from a simple redirect to a knifehand/ palm heel strike.

Also I have taken Japanese Karate and EPAK (under Mr White) and the basic blocks are not different the blocks are esstentially the same.

OC Kid, I agree with you, same with a overhead outward with the wrist and fist pointed inward and then turning it into a pull or a grab.
Or an overhead inward doing the samething by pulling on the arm like in a monkey kata, pulling hitting slapping dragging forward and stepping back and then pushing away with tremndous explosion with your legs and body.

In FMA there really is not that many differences in the strikes and parries, blocks or merges. The difference is to know when to move in and out with the lower body at the same time you are striking or blocking or thrusting.

Leg work is critical in all the arts some just use it more then others...

Since getting into FMA, and at my age, I have found my spot to be, along with a refresher course in kata. Since the cane is just a little longer and very similar, about the most accepted thing anymore for seniors. I am in 7th heaven...

Regards, Gary

 

[8253]

I see

Based on your knowledge of ....

I'm afraid I'm lost. After you make contact, defines what you should have already done?

Based on your knowledge of ...
Perhaps you could elaborate a bit more based on your expereince and knowledge in "Chinese Kenpo?"

I usually dont bite on things like this but here goes. Two simple things. #1- I dont like being mocked, as I am sure you wouldnt. #2 - Make a list of all of the ways you can block, punch, and kick. Then try to add to that list.

As far as any differences in AK and CK, I do not know specifically what the differences are, I have studied on the matter and have found that some of the techniques are similar. Aside from that the only thing that i have found true in most cases is that there are more techniques and katas in one.

 

[Doc]

I usually dont bite on things like this but here goes. Two simple things. #1- I dont like being mocked, as I am sure you wouldnt. #2 - Make a list of all of the ways you can block, punch, and kick. Then try to add to that list.

As far as any differences in AK and CK, I do not know specifically what the differences are, I have studied on the matter and have found that some of the techniques are similar. Aside from that the only thing that i have found true in most cases is that there are more techniques and katas in one.

I apologize if you felt you were being mocked. That was not my intent. I simply have no idea what you're talking about or what point you're trying to make. Perhaps someone else could enlighten me or you, as I stated before, could elaborate.

 

[Hand Sword]

From what i've been reading it seems to be a popular notion that the traditional blocking is just a foundation from which adaptations are made to deal with real stimuli, or real situations. This was the bigger point I was getting at. Since you have to change what you were taught to fit against a real stimuli, or adapt it to the situation, should we not just train that way to begin with? Coming from a self defense point of view, and, from a supposedly self defense oriented system, should we not help the system evolve, and cut the traditional manner of blocking out as the first step, in favor of practicing the adaptations, since that is what you'll use when it comes down to it?

After all, what you first put into your muscle memory, is what will come out first. Just an older practitioner's point of view for dealing with real self defense situations. From what i've been reading you all apply that criteria in your training, such as distance to apply the tech's from, the what if phases, etc... anyway, deep down I think we all agree.

 

[Doc]

From what i've been reading it seems to be a popular notion that the traditional blocking is just a foundation from which adaptations are made to deal with real stimuli, or real situations. This was the bigger point I was getting at. Since you have to change what you were taught to fit against a real stimuli, or adapt it to the situation, should we not just train that way to begin with? Coming from a self defense point of view, and, from a supposedly self defense oriented system, should we not help the system evolve, and cut the traditional manner of blocking out as the first step, in favor of practicing the adaptations, since that is what you'll use when it comes down to it?

After all, what you first put into your muscle memory, is what will come out first. Just an older practitioner's point of view for dealing with real self defense situations. From what i've been reading you all apply that criteria in your training, such as distance to apply the tech's from, the what if phases, etc... anyway, deep down I think we all agree.

No we don't.

 

[kenpoworks]

"After all, what you first put into your muscle memory, is what will come out first" .......Handsword
I cant agree with statement from personal experience I have found on occasion that its what I have be currently practising that seems to come out in confrontation.
So it seems to me that its "last in first out".
Respectfully
Richi
ps I am still not sure about this term "muscle memory", it does seem a bit of a random and a cover all term.

 

[USMATCSensei]

we call them blocks but we also know that they are strikes you dont block but attack the limb that is comin at you.

 

[DavidCC]

I'm a newbie here

LOL

 

[Touch Of Death]

we call them blocks but we also know that they are strikes you dont block but attack the limb that is comin at you.

Thats not entirely true. The important thing is not to get hurt; so, puting multiple points of contact on a round house kick to the head would be more important than injuring the leg; however, you are welcome to take advantage of what happens next.
Sean

 

[USMATCSensei]

Thats not entirely true. The important thing is not to get hurt; so, puting multiple points of contact on a round house kick to the head would be more important than injuring the leg; however, you are welcome to take advantage of what happens next.
Sean

how bout just stepping in on a round house to the head?

 

[Touch Of Death]

how bout just stepping in on a round house to the head?

Depends on the attacker I suppose. Personaly I would recomend moving up the circle with a block.
Sean

 

[Doc]

From what i've been reading it seems to be a popular notion that the traditional blocking is just a foundation from which adaptations are made to deal with real stimuli, or real situations. This was the bigger point I was getting at. Since you have to change what you were taught to fit against a real stimuli, or adapt it to the situation, should we not just train that way to begin with? Coming from a self defense point of view, and, from a supposedly self defense oriented system, should we not help the system evolve, and cut the traditional manner of blocking out as the first step, in favor of practicing the adaptations, since that is what you'll use when it comes down to it?

After all, what you first put into your muscle memory, is what will come out first. Just an older practitioner's point of view for dealing with real self defense situations. From what i've been reading you all apply that criteria in your training, such as distance to apply the tech's from, the what if phases, etc... anyway, deep down I think we all agree.

I have more time now to elaborate. I agree with you with regard to how blocks should be taught. I've found many teach what I call a "traditional" blocking methodology, and then modify it later. I went into a school and watched a "kenpo" teacher, instructing ostensibly a traditional Japanese middle block. Than when they went to the technique, they were unable to use the block they had just been taught. Traditional Japanese Arts essentially do not have the equivalent of the Parker Lineage inward Block. So students of some lineage's are stuck in limbo between their basics and the applications. Instructors teaching "traditional" material in a (relative) non-traditional science. When I mentioned this to the instructor he said, "Oh well, on the street we do it differently."

"If what you do, - is not what you do, - then what the hell are you doing?" - Ed Parker Sr.

 

[USMATCSensei]

I agree, I still call them blocks with the kids and as they get more advanced I tell them they are hitting not blocking lol who knows maybe pressure points may work if not you still hit them.

 

[Hand Sword]

LOL

LOL back! I was when this thread started back in '04!

:erg: Wow! This thread ended that year, I didn't even think it was still in the memory banks lol! How did anyone find this and bring it back? Incredible!

Oh well, serves me right. I brought back the bar brawl thread in the general section after it was dead for a good while.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I agree, I still call them blocks with the kids and as they get more advanced I tell them they are hitting not blocking lol who knows maybe pressure points may work if not you still hit them.

Its all just motion.
Sean

 

[marlon]

would anyone say that the body mechanics taught in effective blocking is the most important part of blocking?
If this is true then perhaps the conversation could discuss the differnces in the body mechanics as taught in the traditional blocks vs non traditional...
respectfully,
Marlon