Tracy Kenpo vs. EPAK

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Karazenpo

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The Kai said:
While you are correct in that a straight line is a straight line, again the angles timing, targets all differ. If you work this in a class room things are pretty controlled (Sensei called this the ideal stage). Sometimes people get complacent at this point at how easy it is to controll an opponent!


30 years ago we did duck walks, bunny hops and forced strechs. BTW I don't really know what your conditioning ar training entail so it's hard to make a comparision.

todd

Hey Todd, those duck walks and bunny hops we're something else, weren't they?,lol. We still use them at my school and they're part of most tests. Prof. Joe
 

koga ha

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sorry, i didn't see where you mentioned angles. nonetheless, lines, angles, and targets all differ, but as humans we are bound to movements that fall along those lines and angles.

you talk about change and that it's necessary, so why are men, women, and children being taught 101 ways to damage or terminate a human being without teaching the legal ramifications and the minimum and maximum effects of strikes/punches.

i hate to pin that last comment on you because you may very well be doing that; however, it does make for an interesting conversation.
 

The Kai

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Right with Kenpo comes a lot of responsability, we have had classroom discussions based on news items or incidents!


While you may think that every attack will fall within the lines and angles that you are comfortable with is somewhat limited in application. The uppercutt thrown by a Hung gar Stlist vs the uppercut by a Kickboxer same punch right?? Try pulling the exact defense off on both techinques. When sparring you are forced to adapt, take things out of the Class Rooom Model (Ideal Phase) into a more free response.

Joe, we too still pull out the bunny hops once in a great while, when it's not to cold out!
Todd
 

koga ha

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The Kai said:
Right with Kenpo comes a lot of responsability, we have had classroom discussions based on news items or incidents!


While you may think that every attack will fall within the lines and angles that you are comfortable with is somewhat limited in application. The uppercutt thrown by a Hung gar Stlist vs the uppercut by a Kickboxer same punch right?? Try pulling the exact defense off on both techinques. When sparring you are forced to adapt, take things out of the Class Rooom Model (Ideal Phase) into a more free response.

Todd
what stops a vertical....a horizontal. how can that be limited, sounds simple to me. and that's only half of the equation.

well, it looks like we can agree to disagree.
 

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Next time you are sparring, put on the heavier gloves and then try to drop a Horizontal Forearm against a good strong uppercut, then write out how it went!!

Todd
 

Old Fat Kenpoka

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The Kai said:
Next time you are sparring, put on the heavier gloves and then try to drop a Horizontal Forearm against a good strong uppercut, then write out how it went!!

Todd

To maximize the effect Todd is looking for, be sure to lean forward and extend your chin.
 

The Kai

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Old Fat Kenpoka said:
To maximize the effect Todd is looking for, be sure to lean forward and extend your chin.
Right, Cuz that will maximize the strenght of horizontal brace of your checking forearm.
Todd
 

koga ha

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Old Fat Kenpoka said:
To maximize the effect Todd is looking for, be sure to lean forward and extend your chin.
maybe i'll even open my mouth and see if i can get it knocked off the hinges too.
 

The Kai

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GAB said:
Hi KenpoDave,

So EPAK is change and Tracy is no change. ????

There should have been a question mark at the end...

Type O...

Regards, Gary
Having worked with different systems of Kenpo, you can defiitly see "Key Motions" that show up in the different branchs. How to find the original Kenpo. First get all the different branchs in the same room, have them dissect each motion see if there is anything the same in thier branch.
The difficulties
!.) Getting everyone in the same room
2.) Kenpo has changed not only thru the various branch (AK, Tracy's, Goshin, Cerio's, Castro and Kara-ho)
3.) Kenpo changed as these "founders' were studing. IMHO Chow was never stagnent. Maybe that is why there is a difference in the between the different time layers
4.) and of course differences in how it was transmitted

Kenpo has changed, Kenpo will change. GM say "Kenpo is the law of the fist in transition".
Todd
 

GAB

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Hi Todd,

As you probably know. The instructors that I train with and hang around, will disagree with the straight line concept. It is an illusion all strikes and movement is/are in a, not so straight line.

Movement of feet can be considered straight but not the strikes etc.

I have a tendacy to want to argue the point but alas, I am not going to, for it is really not worth the time.

Listen and think, keep the mouth shut and play their game...I think EPAK's universal pattern is pretty clear.

I was at a lesson yesterday and had some disagreements, it worked out but we did not come to an agreement just worked through the lesson without either one of us feeling it was a good one...

That is what makes the world go around. Sometimes instructors need to listen to what the student wants and is paying for.

I believe private lessons are different than class lessons. The student is in charge of the lesson not the instructor.

What is your take on that???

Regards, Gary



The Kai said:
Having worked with different systems of Kenpo, you can defiitly see "Key Motions" that show up in the different branchs. How to find the original Kenpo. First get all the different branchs in the same room, have them dissect each motion see if there is anything the same in thier branch.
The difficulties
!.) Getting everyone in the same room
2.) Kenpo has changed not only thru the various branch (AK, Tracy's, Goshin, Cerio's, Castro and Kara-ho)
3.) Kenpo changed as these "founders' were studing. IMHO Chow was never stagnent. Maybe that is why there is a difference in the between the different time layers
4.) and of course differences in how it was transmitted

Kenpo has changed, Kenpo will change. GM say "Kenpo is the law of the fist in transition".
Todd
 

GAB

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The Kai said:
Right, Cuz that will maximize the strenght of horizontal brace of your checking forearm.
Todd
Hi,

Someone else see the wrong response or is it just me???

Todd I think you need to reread this and then???

Or not.

Regards, Gary
 
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shane23ss

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GAB said:
Hi,

Someone else see the wrong response or is it just me???

Todd I think you need to reread this and then???

Or not.

Regards, Gary
I think it was a joke.
 

The Kai

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shane23ss said:
I think it was a joke.
Maybe not if it has to be explained.
No, a pure straight line does'nt really exist in nature
Yes, private lessons are "Loa's" time, butr there need to be guidelines, and if want to work something 'extraordinary' shout out a heads up ahead of time!
Todd
 

koga ha

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GAB said:
Hi Todd,

As you probably know. The instructors that I train with and hang around, will disagree with the straight line concept. It is an illusion all strikes and movement is/are in a, not so straight line.

Movement of feet can be considered straight but not the strikes etc.

I have a tendacy to want to argue the point but alas, I am not going to, for it is really not worth the time.

Listen and think, keep the mouth shut and play their game...I think EPAK's universal pattern is pretty clear.

I was at a lesson yesterday and had some disagreements, it worked out but we did not come to an agreement just worked through the lesson without either one of us feeling it was a good one...

That is what makes the world go around. Sometimes instructors need to listen to what the student wants and is paying for.

I believe private lessons are different than class lessons. The student is in charge of the lesson not the instructor.

What is your take on that???

Regards, Gary
why is the student in charge of the lesson?
 

RavenDarkfellow

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I've been on Vacation the last week+ and was thus unable to respond.

I'm just wondering, Kembudo-Kai, how it is that you claim to have a 2cnd degree blackbelt, yet you seem to lack a white-belt in respect?

I said nothing offensive or demeaning, I was merely making my opinion voiced, and for some reason, your insecure little ego decided it was a good opportunity to insult me, so you could feel like a big man. Did it work, big man? You feel nice and puffed up now?

I have to say, as a martial artist I tend not to find it necessary to create further ego boosts. My strength, skill, and simple participation within the art has given me the self-respect and confidence I formerly lacked. I had assumed this was true of all real martial artists.
 

MJS

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Please keep the discussion at a friendly and respectful level!

If you're having a problem with someone on the forum, please use the features that are provided here.

1- Email

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Thank you,

Mike
 

Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

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RavenDarkfellow said:
I've been on Vacation the last week+ and was thus unable to respond.

I'm just wondering, Kembudo-Kai, how it is that you claim to have a 2cnd degree blackbelt, yet you seem to lack a white-belt in respect?

I said nothing offensive or demeaning, I was merely making my opinion voiced, and for some reason, your insecure little ego decided it was a good opportunity to insult me, so you could feel like a big man. Did it work, big man? You feel nice and puffed up now?

I have to say, as a martial artist I tend not to find it necessary to create further ego boosts. My strength, skill, and simple participation within the art has given me the self-respect and confidence I formerly lacked. I had assumed this was true of all real martial artists.
I don't see rank claims anywhere; that 2nd Black thing is a MartialTalk placement relating to nothing more than the number of posts I've stuck on the board over time. I do disclose to serious inquiries: Based on your post and the absolutely huge piece of anime/RPG art you had on your sig line, I did not take you as a serious poster. I DID misinterpret your name and artwork as bing the work of kid I used to know, who was a huge RPG fan and excellent artist who drew an RPG character named Raven for his hobby, and thought I might flush out a "howdy" with a tease. Apparently, you are not he, eh?

What you don't know about me could fill volumes. Let me know when your training teaches you patience and inquiry...to respond strategically, and not react emotionally.

Regards,

Dave
 
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RavenDarkfellow

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I do apologize for the rank thing, as I misinterpretted the post-signifyer for the rank claim. (As one of the profile options asks you to enter your rank, if you so choose.) That's what I mistook it for.

As to me being whoever you "thought" I was, no I'm not. It may please you to learn that I -am- an RPG/anime fan, however. The picture I displayed I had hoped would be smaller and less intrusive-- seeing that it wasn't, though, I quickly changed it.

I apologize if I overreacted, but it was quite frustrating to find that after my serious, polite post, you had criticized me (even if it was joking) without even saying anything to do with the point of the message. I am over it, however, and will appreciate it if we can just put it behind us.
 

Old Fat Kenpoka

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RevenDarkFellow:

I have to tell you a story. The final paper for my undergrad business management capstone class was a case study. I mispelled the name of the case-study's company president, mispelled it the same way, 49 times. The professor dinged me 1 point each time I mispelled it. His comment was: "if you were working for this guy, and you didn't get his name right, you'd get fired."

Anyway...in your profile...you mispelled "Tracy".
 
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