Hey. I'm 6'3'' and have been trying to do a kip-up for my self-defense class. My master doesn't require it, but I think it looks good and makes the class look better. Also as an avid marital artist I want to learn as many things as I can. Anywho I always fall on my back. Any advise?
Too tall to do a kip-up?
- Thread starter Champloo
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Bruno@MT
Senior Master
As long as your body is proportioned normally, your length is irrelevant. What matters is flexibility and technique.
I wanted to learn a handstand flip, even though it is not a mandatory part of my curriculum. It took me lots and lots of falling and aching before I finally got it. For several weeks I spent half an hour almost every day practising. I imagine that learning to do a kip up comes with the same issues. What helps is youtube. I found a good vid of a young cheerleader explaining how to do a proper handstand flip, and that helped a lot, because noone I knew could show it to me.
For a kip up, this one could be useful. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyYCCfAK5UM&feature=related but I am sure that there will be others.
Persevere and don't let the aches dissuade you. You will get there, even though it may take time, effort and discomfort.
I wanted to learn a handstand flip, even though it is not a mandatory part of my curriculum. It took me lots and lots of falling and aching before I finally got it. For several weeks I spent half an hour almost every day practising. I imagine that learning to do a kip up comes with the same issues. What helps is youtube. I found a good vid of a young cheerleader explaining how to do a proper handstand flip, and that helped a lot, because noone I knew could show it to me.
For a kip up, this one could be useful. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyYCCfAK5UM&feature=related but I am sure that there will be others.
Persevere and don't let the aches dissuade you. You will get there, even though it may take time, effort and discomfort.
LuckyKBoxer
Master Black Belt
I am 6'3" and 260 atm and can do a kip up.
The key is to get your feet back under you, you have to arch your back, I suggest using your hands to help kip yourself up at first before going to the no hands version. I also recommend doing it on a trampoline first since the motion is the hardest part to get, after you have the motion on a trampoline it will be fairly easy to adjust to a matted ground, then to whatever ground.
I always thought the kip-up was a cool move... but never learned it. Now at my age, it's not even on my "to do list"! I wish you good luck, and keep us posted.
Now, on a slightly different topic... you said you were interested in learning this for your self-defense class? I'm surprised, since I never thought of a kip up as useful self-defense move. It's a great stunt, to be sure, and looks great in exhibitions and movie fight scenes, but I can think of several better ways to get up from the ground in a self defense situation. In fact, aside from the possible "element of surprise", a kip-up leaves you really exposed and vulnerable in most self-defense or fighting scenarios that I can imagine.
Well in our self-defense class there are a lot of wrist escapes and locking someone on the ground. So when we get up, it looks more professional when we kip-up from the ground. It's not actually part of the class, which is why it is not mandatory. But yeah im going to keep trying and i'll post when I get it down!
Bruno@MT
Senior Master
In ninpo, zenpo tenkai (handstand flip) and koho tenkai (back handspring) are part of the curriculum, though they are not mandatory for grading.
By themselves, they can be used as evasive movements to certain kinds of attack. They are also used as part of escapes from certain locks or throws. They are not attack moves. Instead, they are used for getting away.
By themselves, they can be used as evasive movements to certain kinds of attack. They are also used as part of escapes from certain locks or throws. They are not attack moves. Instead, they are used for getting away.
LuckyKBoxer
Master Black Belt
A Kipup is another tool for the toolbox.
A defense way to get up is the way that we teach in BJJ, one hand posted behind, and one foot posted, the other foot can kick the opponent then is brought through and behind to stand up.... moving away from the opponent.
A kipup is a great offensive way to get up. I can think of dozens of ways to effectively use a kipup as opposed to another type of stand up movement.
A defense way to get up is the way that we teach in BJJ, one hand posted behind, and one foot posted, the other foot can kick the opponent then is brought through and behind to stand up.... moving away from the opponent.
A kipup is a great offensive way to get up. I can think of dozens of ways to effectively use a kipup as opposed to another type of stand up movement.
Rather than kipping up -- it'd be much more professional in a self defense class to use methods to rise that will let you fight at any point in the rise. LuckyKBoxer described one; there are others.
If the class is about self defense practice awareness and readiness at every point from the start of class to the end. That'll stand you in much better stead than kips.
If the class is about self defense practice awareness and readiness at every point from the start of class to the end. That'll stand you in much better stead than kips.
ap Oweyn
Black Belt
I gotta agree. Kip ups are cool to watch. And, at least as importantly, fun to do. I used to do them. (I'm 6'1" by the way.) But in a self-defense class? About as useful as giving a duck an umbrella.
If I were watching a class that billed itself as self-defense, I wouldn't think of the kip up as being professional. I'd start to wonder if the class is actually addressing self-defense. Because getting up from various takedowns in a way that's actually valid as self-defense seems like a valuable exercise. Getting up in a way that's specifically designed to be visually impressive is a different set of priorities entirely.
Learn to kip up because it's fun, because it's good to watch, or because it's physically difficult to do (and you revel in doing what's difficult to do). But it seems like a waste of a valuable training opportunity in a specifically self-defense class.
Stuart
If I were watching a class that billed itself as self-defense, I wouldn't think of the kip up as being professional. I'd start to wonder if the class is actually addressing self-defense. Because getting up from various takedowns in a way that's actually valid as self-defense seems like a valuable exercise. Getting up in a way that's specifically designed to be visually impressive is a different set of priorities entirely.
Learn to kip up because it's fun, because it's good to watch, or because it's physically difficult to do (and you revel in doing what's difficult to do). But it seems like a waste of a valuable training opportunity in a specifically self-defense class.
Stuart
Scenarios? I can't think of too many, off-hand. But I suspect that a person's veiw on this may reflect the arts they practice. I do WT and Combat Escrima. They are all about simplicity and a sort of "less is more" mindset. I see from your profile that you study ninpo. That would imply a different perspective.
Either way, I wish I could do such gymnastics, useful or not. I actually could do a handspring as a teenager, but 35 years and several injuries later, it's not an option.
Bruno@MT
Senior Master
the scenarios I've seen (from being uke for my sensei when he was practising teachniques for his grade) are mostly related to escaping from certain joint locks if you are fast enough, or to escape out of a throw. I readily admit that these are not the most applicable things in the curriculum.
It's like in the alfabet: there are letters such as Q and X that are not used all too often (well, Q is used more in the English language than in Dutch, where it is almost never used) but just because they are hardly ever used does not mean that they are not letters. They'll never be a prestigious letter, like E or A, but the sake of completeness they are in the list.
But I the biggest reason I wanted to do it was the coolness factor. It took a lot of falling and getting up, and lots of aching. I wrote about it on my blog in case you want to read about it. I am now preparing for the back flip, but that will take some more time.
It's like in the alfabet: there are letters such as Q and X that are not used all too often (well, Q is used more in the English language than in Dutch, where it is almost never used) but just because they are hardly ever used does not mean that they are not letters. They'll never be a prestigious letter, like E or A, but the sake of completeness they are in the list.
But I the biggest reason I wanted to do it was the coolness factor. It took a lot of falling and getting up, and lots of aching. I wrote about it on my blog in case you want to read about it. I am now preparing for the back flip, but that will take some more time.
ap Oweyn
Black Belt
I couldn't spell "xylophone" without "x." (I'm not sure I can spell it even with the "x.") I could defend myself without a kip up. So if my situation calls for me to spell "xylophone" those letters are good to have. If my situation pertains specifically to self-defense, I think there are some tools that are reliable enough that training time is better spent on those than on some of the less likely defenses.
Watch the UFC. I know it's not reality. But in this case, that doesn't work against me. How long does it take for an aggressor who's on his feet to recognize an opening and pounce on a downed opponent? Seconds?
And how many seconds does it take to kip up? And during that time, you're obscuring your own vision and giving up your own back.
Like I say, they're fun. I wouldn't dissuade anyone from learning them. But, in my view, they're not good content for a self-defense class specifically.
Stuart
Watch the UFC. I know it's not reality. But in this case, that doesn't work against me. How long does it take for an aggressor who's on his feet to recognize an opening and pounce on a downed opponent? Seconds?
And how many seconds does it take to kip up? And during that time, you're obscuring your own vision and giving up your own back.
Like I say, they're fun. I wouldn't dissuade anyone from learning them. But, in my view, they're not good content for a self-defense class specifically.
Stuart
I'm 6 foot three and can kip. I learned on a high jump pad. Don't use you hands, just do it over and over until you figure it out.
Sean
