Too Intellectual????

[Touch Of Death]

I would have to say that it must be a localised to you thing if you think MMA is calling kenpo anything because outside the US kenpo isn't well known at all, so it's not all of MMA calling kenpo anything. Most of us have never heard of it.

It is all Kenpo, Tez3. LOL

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Very likely. We have a plethora of MMA gyms in the area. Heck, I ran one in the mid-nineties. The guys around here happily refer to kenpo as a TMA, which I find ironic. Mr. Parkers black belts used to be excluded from TMA tournaments.

One of my favorite stories from the early days. The JMA crowd is having a tournament, and they rule that lead-hand backnuckles are no-point, because you can't generate any power in it (as compared to a rear hand punch). The Parker boy whacks a guy with a lead backfist. "No point; no power". So he does it again in the next exchange, knocking the other guy down and out. While he's sleeping it off, the ref has to make the call. Again: "No point - no power". That was a mere 45-ish years ago. Hardly ancient history.

 

[Tez3]

It is all Kenpo, Tez3. LOL

Well you may think so but to us it could just as easily be Ecky Thump!

 

[Touch Of Death]

Well you may think so but to us it could just as easily be Ecky Thump!

As I was recently informed, it just mean China Hand, or Qin Hand, or, some how translated, fist law, which actually means, Understanding the laws and principles of nature regarding the fist, which more simply put means... Martial Art.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Wait... I always knew it meant martial art, but the Qin Hand, is new.

 

[drop bear]

turning completely around with a rear-leg roundhouse (as in Thai), thus leaving your back exposed to your opponent for nearly 50% of the time. That's fine in the ring, but if you swing that kick at the head of a knife-weilding attacker in a bar, you may find yourself with a suddenly-ill-functioning kidney.

Two little issues with that.

Staying front on does not really stop you being stabbed.

And the back is exposed in sport as well. So if that kick creates that opening. It creates it without the knife.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Right. Good time to shoot on someone, or slug them in the back of the neck or head.

 

[Blindside]

As I was recently informed, it just mean China Hand, or Qin Hand, or, some how translated, fist law, which actually means, Understanding the laws and principles of nature regarding the fist, which more simply put means... Martial Art.

China Hand is the translation for the kanji on the patch for kara (China) te (hand). Kenpo is the translation for fist law.

 

[Touch Of Death]

China Hand is the translation for the kanji on the patch for kara (China) te (hand). Kenpo is the translation for fist law.

Which means... (?)

 

[Touch Of Death]

China Hand is the translation for the kanji on the patch for kara (China) te (hand). Kenpo is the translation for fist law.

Kara means empty, or if you stretch it, center, or hara. Ken, qin, and chin, work for me, but what ever the pronunciation it means the way you do martial stuff. LOL

 

[Tez3]

but what ever the pronunciation it means the way you do martial stuff. LOL

Mmm that's the bit that has people arguing! "your way doesn't work" "yes it does, your way is pants" "no I've got videos to prove yours is useless and mine is supreme" etc etc etc. ad nauseum.

 

[Blindside]

Kara means empty, or if you stretch it, center, or hara. Ken, qin, and chin, work for me, but what ever the pronunciation it means the way you do martial stuff. LOL

No, the kanji on Parker's patch is the kanji for "China" not "Empty" they are pronounced the same but have a different meaning. Funakoshi changed the kanji from "China" to "empty" for philosophical and political (the Japanese were unlikely to approve of doing an art named after a major rival). The Parker patch uses the older kanji, I can't remember but I am pretty certain Infinite Insights describes the kanji in the patch incorrectly.

 

[Blindside]

Which means... (?)

Chaun-fa/Ken-po = Fist method or fist law, so maybe something like "how to use your fists" a completely generic reference to martial arts.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Mmm that's the bit that has people arguing! "your way doesn't work" "yes it does, your way is pants" "no I've got videos to prove yours is useless and mine is supreme" etc etc etc. ad nauseum.

As for that nonsense, we all have our own kenpo. It is a generic term.

 

[Tez3]

As for that nonsense, we all have our own kenpo. It is a generic term.

Tends not to be used too much here, all non martial artists think we do Judo anyway!

 

[Touch Of Death]

Tends not to be used too much here, all non martial artists think we do Judo anyway!

Every one here thinks I do Tae Kwon Do; so, it is no different, this side..

 

[ShotoNoob]

I would say, the footwork is what separates Kenpo from the traditional styles. There is no teaching of one thing, and then having them do something completely different against a body, meaning, there isn't a sport version, and a traditional version.

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Well, I've seen YT vids of Kenpo competitors sparring similar to what we see in sport karate. OTOH, the Kenpo practitioners that I know of in my locality (few) adhere to the more 'purist' practice you speak of. I'm in favor of the latter, personally....

 

[ShotoNoob]

Kenpo is TMA, plus boxing, plus old judo and jujutsu, tweaked for fighting. Locals in the streets of Hawaii getting harassed and harangued by servicemen in the 40's and 50's spawned an approach to short, fast bursts of strikes to vital targets (i.e., eyes, throat, temple, knees) so single locals could hash out their differences with multiple attackers in the bars and streets near Pearl.

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Yes, I have heard of that evolution of Kenpo. A heavy emphasis on the actual self defense, destructive usage. But then to counter your whole post, doesn't it (Kenpo) the differ from MMA in that regard? I'm mean MMA has safety rules. In MMA, competitors do try from sending the opponent to the morgue, or into permanent blindness, etc.
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It was not made for character development; it did not come from ancient, proud Samurai traditions. It was a bunch of street rats, summarizing and codifying their bootleg martial arts for brawling in back-alleys. Judo has a proud University and Olympic tradition, and the ultimate goal is the purification of self. Karate emanates from the Japanese culture of making sure executions are pristine, and in keeping with tradition.
Kenpo is for breaking peoples bones, in brawls.

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Right. The Hawaiian version(s) speak of this flavor. Yet, in my area, there is/was an Chinese kempo school that shared very similar form & traditions to certain Okinawan kenpo styles. There's even Japanese Kenpo, I think. I'm not expert here, help me out....

 

[Blindside]

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Right. The Hawaiian version(s) speak of this flavor. Yet, in my area, there is/was an Chinese kempo school that shared very similar form & traditions to certain Okinawan kenpo styles. There's even Japanese Kenpo, I think. I'm not expert here, help me out....

Most of the "Chinese Kenpo" schools are Hawaiian derives kenpo lineages that added a later infusion of Chinese methods into their eclectic systems, this is also true of "Shaolin Kenpo." How much actual infusion of said Chinese methods varies on lineage and in many cases is more marketing than substance. The term kenpo was apparently used in Okinawa as an alternate term for karate in some lineages. I have never heard of a Japanese kenpo, but I have heard of a Shorinji Kenpo which is supposed to be essentially studying a Shaolin Chuan-Fa system through a Japanese head instructor and organization.

 

[ShotoNoob]

Most of the "Chinese Kenpo" schools are Hawaiian derives kenpo lineages that added a later infusion of Chinese methods into their eclectic systems, this is also true of "Shaolin Kenpo." How much actual infusion of said Chinese methods varies on lineage and in many cases is more marketing than substance.

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My understanding that this is the route that Ed Parker took, who of course made the kenpo styles famous in America.

The term kenpo was apparently used in Okinawa as an alternate term for karate in some lineages. I have never heard of a Japanese kenpo, but I have heard of a Shorinji Kenpo which is supposed to be essentially studying a Shaolin Chuan-Fa system through a Japanese head instructor and organization.

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Yes, I think this is what I am seeing in my locale. Basically Okinawan karate referred to as kenpo. These guys look a lot like kick boxers when it comes to sparring, though there are variations as you say.
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Anything Japanese kenpo is overshadowed by the Shotokan karate-lineage styles in Japan--IMO. In addition to the "Chaun-Fa" version, I do believe however, that an Okinawan kenpo style or styles has been translated to Japan, the relative following is small compared to the mainstream Japanese karate styles.