Chris Parker, Chris Parker, Chris Parker...
Usually when we say his name three times, he appears.
But, he is VERY knowledgeable about this topic and it history and give a good answer.
Dude, no fair... I was here for something else (that'll take a while)...
Hi. I am currently reading about Bujinkan history.
Hi Alex,
All the best with that! The "history" is sometimes more "story" than anything else...
I found some sources/posts saying that Takamatsu trying to create a "Kukishin-ryū Ninpō" and that Togakure-ryū was born from this attempt.
After leaving the Kuki family in the mid-30's, and establishing the Kashihara Shobukyoku, around 1950 Takamatsu sent a letter to the then-soke of Kukishin Ryu (now Kukamishin Ryu), requesting permission to establish a "Chosui-ha Kukishin Ryu Ninpo" system (Chosui being a name that Takamatsu was known by in the Kukishin Ryu). This was, really, the last breaking with the formal Kukishin Ryu, as, up to that point, he was essentially teaching Takagi Ryu Jujutsu and Kukishin Ryu, ot the point that senior members of Kukishin Ryu would still visit Takamatsu for further study, and his most senior students themselves (Sato Kinbei, Akimoto, Kimura etc) were seen as seniors of Kukishin Ryu, not anything else at the time. This request was denied, and, not long afterwards, Takamatsu started teaching "publicly for the first time" his "family" arts of Togakure Ryu, Gyokko Ryu, Koto Ryu... Shinden Fudo Ryu probably made an appearance around here as well... Gyokushin, Kumogakure, Gikan? Still not seen or heard of...
So, Togakure-ryu would be, at least in part a "modern offspring" of Kukishin-ryu.
Most likely, yes. Combined with other things. Historically, the Kukishin teachings were divided up into two areas, Dai no Hyoho and Sho no Hyoho (basically "Large-scale Strategies" and "Small-scale Strategies"). The political developments in Japan (the establishment of the Tokugawa regime) meant that the Kukishin Ryu stopped teaching their Dai no Hyoho, which was really for large-scale army movements, organisation, and so forth, including things like the usage and application (as well as training for) spies and saboteurs... also known as "ninja" today. The only part retained was the Sho no Hyoho, which deals with individual combative methodologies (I'm not covering the time when the art was "banned", as it wasn't in all areas, and the art survived in other parts of the region).
As a designated Shihan of the Kukishin Ryu, Takamatsu had access to the Kuki family archives, something that would prove fortuitous for the family when some records were lost in WWII, and Takamatsu was able to recreate them (in a way) from his own notes and present a copy to the Kuki family. In this study, he would have undoubtedly come across a fair bit of the Dai no Hyoho, which is likely the origin for the bulk of the "Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu" teachings that we have today. I say bulk, because other aspects seem lifted wholesale from texts such as the Bansenshukai and Ninpiden, as well as the writings of Ito Gingetsu of the early 20th Century...
Well, as you list myself as a source you've read there, yeah?
The Bullshido thread... yeah, I'd ignore it, as, even when they get things right, they're wrong. The Genbukan history page is the history as presented internally within the ryu... however, it's important to remember what I said above... history is more story than anything else here... and note that it starts by saying "According to legend"....
Bottom line is that probably no one alive today knows for sure.
True. But we can make some educated guesses.
Let's flesh this out a bit...
- Kukishin-ryu is a koryu (documented historical Japanese martial art that predates the Meiji restoration). It is not a ninjutsu system.
The Kukamishin Ryu (who reverted to the earlier pronunciation of their name around 2016, and will be referred to as such from here on), formerly referred to as Kukishin Ryu, is a sogo bujutsu system, as many pre-Edo schools were, covering many aspects of military study, from combative techniques with a variety of dominantly battlefield weapons, to understanding castle fortification, siege warfare, naval warfare (they were known as the leaders of the Kumano Suigun, basically the Kumano navy), and so on, including the usage of spies and saboteurs (shinobi/ninja etc), with ninjutsu teachings associated. These were also found in related schools, such as Kishu Ryu, a school once held by the Natori family (related to the Kuki family), and the basis of some of the material that Antony Cummins is using to create his "Natori Ryu" nonsense.
So, was it/is it a "ninjutsu" system? No. But, then again, historically speaking, the idea of a "ninjutsu" system existing as an individual entity was highly unusual in and of itself... it'd be like making a guitar but only giving it one string. However, it did definitely have a ninjutsu teaching historically included....
- Takamatsu was a licensed instructor of Kukushin-ryu.
Yes, with a (small) caveat... Takamatsu studied under Ishitani/Ishiya, who taught him Takagi Ryu Jujutsu (Hontai Yoshin Ryu Takagi Ryu). Along with the Takagi Ryu, there was a line of Kukishin Ryu Bojutsu retained from the connection between Takagi Gennoshin (third head of Takagi Ryu), and Ohkuni Kihei, fourth head of the Ouchi Ijin line of Kukamishin Ryu/Kukishin Ryu (the name used at this time is unclear). From Ishitani, Takamatsu achieved Menkyo Kaiden in 1913, and, by 1919, he was a part of a board headed by the 26th Soke of the Kuki family, Kuki Takaharu, who was putting great effort into the restoration of the Shinto and martial traditions of his family that had begun two generations earlier with the 24th Soke, Kuki Takahiro. Takahiro had learnt one of the other extant lines of his family's art, the Oguchi line, which retained things like a form of the Taijutsu, as well as some weapon skills such as the Kenpo and so on. He developed a series of "safer" practices (kihon) to help the popularity of the school.
In the 26th Generation, Kuki Takaharu, a board was created to bring together a range of teachers who maintained a line of Kuki martial arts, including two students of Ishitani, being Takamatsu and Iwami Nangaku, as well as one of Takamatsu's senior students, Akimoto Fumio. Two years later, in 1921, the Kodo Senyukai Shobukyoku was established to be the primary official teaching location for the family system. Through his Menkyo Kaiden in the Ishitani (Ouchi Ijin) line of Kukishin Ryu Bojutsu, Takamatsu was appointed as a Shihan of the newly restored Kukishin Ryu (Kukamishin Ryu). He was also instrumental in restoring/reconstructing a range of their lost kata, most notably the naginata techniques, from the notes in the Kuki archives, and over his time there (around 15 years), he became skilled in the various other aspects of the ryu. However, it should be understood that his Shihan status was due to the Menkyo Kaiden from Ishitani, which afforded him a position in the newly established re-invigoration of the Kukamishin Ryu, not that he was necessarily a student of theirs from the beginning, and progressed through the school in that manner.
- Takamatsu also claimed to be the inheritor of a number of other martial arts. most of have no historical record of existing before he started teaching them.
He did. It should also be remembered that he spent an amount of time in China, typically presented as being 10 years, from 1909 or 1910 through to his return in 1919. It is known that he established the Nihon Seinen Butoku-Kai (Society for Promotion of Japanese Martial Arts) in 1914, but we also know that he got his Menkyo Kaiden from Ishitani in 1913... it's possible that he went to China, returned, got Menkyo Kaiden, then went back to establish the Butoku-kai, of course... but the story again has some issues. Regardless, he was definitely there for at least a number of years, and engaged in study and experiences with other martial artists there, including fights, but also in training experiences. Considering the make-up of most of these less-than-established (historically) schools, it's entirely likely that they (specifically Gyokko and Koto Ryu) are reworked versions of arts he came across in China. This would explain the emphasis on striking, the frequent usage of kamae (quite unusual in Japanese unarmed systems), some of the naming conventions (Jade Tiger? Not an overly Japanese descriptive form... but very Chinese!).
It gets even harder to get to the heart of the others... Gikan Ryu is supposed to be related to Gyokko, but it's kata listing and methodology (from the Genbukan glimpses) are very much in line with Koto Ryu; Kumogakure Ryu seems to be little more than some ideas and concepts, with no technical material, and is said to be just an addendum on the Togakure Ryu scroll; Gyokushin Ryu made an unusual appearance some 3 years after Takamatsu passed, with Hatsumi apparently walking into the changing rooms of the dojo to announce that he was actually the head of 9 schools, not 8 (as he'd written in a letter to the soke of Kukamishin Ryu a year or so earlier)... no one really knows where that came from, or what it's meant to be...
The hardest one to really pin down is Shinden Fudo Ryu. There have been a number of schools with this name, and two of that name have made their way into the Takamatsuden circles, the Dakentaijutsu and the Jutaijutsu/Taijutsu. Shinden Fudo Ryu was supposed to be the official dojo of Takamatsu's grandfather (or uncle), Toda Shinryuken Masamitsu, but which one? There are conflicting stories about what Takamatsu actually studied, and the Taijutsu line seems to be more related to the Ueno Takashi group of schools, which would make you think it's the Dakentaijutsu... but Toda has been elusive to say the least when it comes down to any evidence he existed, and the rest of the questionable schools all trace to Toda (except Gikan, which is said to have come from a second teacher of Takagi Ryu to Takamatsu, Mizuta).
- Togakure-ryu is one of those arts.
It is; see above.
- Togakure-ryu has the oldest claimed lineage of all of Takamatsu's arts.
Well... no, actually. What it claims is the longest list of headmasters. Both Gyokko and Shinden Fudo Ryu claim to be fractionally older (Togakure Ryu's claimed foundation date is 1185, Gyokko Ryu is 1156, and Shinden Fudo Ryu is 1113! However, Togakure Ryu claims 35 soke (with Hatsumi being the 34th, and now having passed the title to Tsutsui Taakumi, Gyokko got to 29 with the late Ishizuka Tetsuji-sensei being appointed before passing himself almost a year ago (there have been rumours of a 30th, but I won't go into them here. I have heard no formal announcement), and Shinden Fudo Ryu being in it's claimed 27th generation with the appointment of Nagato Toshiro-sensei.
- That claimed lineage is either completely fabricated or extremely embellished. Not only is there no historical record of the supposed previous headmasters, the claimed lineage goes back further than the existence of the ryu system itself in Japan.
This is all true, however, also not unheard of. Kukamishin Ryu itself claims its history goes back to the beginning of the Nambokucho period (in fact, stemming from the very events that began the period) in 1336; the Chikubujima ryu school of Bojutsu claims to have a founding date of 1184; the Kashima Shin-ryu makes the claim of stemming from the spiritual awakening of Kashima Shrine in 645AD!
Of course, most serious scholars will look to these dates as symbolic more than literal... schools such as Tenshin Buko Ryu claim founding from persons who have almost no possibility of being in any way related to the schools methods at all... the usage of particular events or persons in histories are often there to imply, or indicate, certain aspects of the philosophical or political outlook that the school is focused on.
- There are different possibilities for the actual origin of Togakure Ryu. Perhaps Takamatsu learned some ninjutsu-relevant information from a family member, organized it, and made up a lineal history. Perhaps he created it based on information from historical scrolls from schools that used to have a ninjutsu component. Perhaps Kukushin ryu was one of those schools.
Well, I think I've put my views down above...
- In any case, there is no indication that Takatsu ever told anyone the true source of the art, so we can do is speculate.
Also true. Although, I will say that there is a story out there that Tanemura, unsure as to the veracity of the stories found in the Bujinkan, when he left to form the Genbukan, did a thorough investigation himself, and found that there was no support for the claimed histories... but he decided to continue with them anyway. You can look at this as a way of respecting the teacher, or you can look at it as cynical marketing, I suppose... one big aspect of Japanese culture is to "believe what you are told, and don't question what you're told". Seniors are to be held in respect, and you shouldn't do anything that makes them seem less than what they claimed, so continuing the story makes sense that way. You also have to remember that he spent quite a while seeking out other students of Takamatsu, so he would have likely been privy to a fair bit of information around those early years that we weren't... as the students were with Takamatsu from when he was still with the Kuki family, and later, all well and truly pre-dating Hatsumi's connection.
Thank for the answer. I asked the same question on Reddit, and the answer was always: "Read Sean Askew and Kacem Zoughari". I am reading Kacem Zoughari, and there are so many red flags in his methodology.
I put little to no stock in Zhougari whatsoever. He's clean and fairly sharp in his movement (from a Bujinkan perspective), so he gets a lot of fans... his academic credentials are highly suspect, he makes simple, basic mistakes in his "research" and language skills, he seems to start with an opinion, and looks for things that support it, and so on. Additionally, he just isn't that good on a technical level... his sense of distancing and weapon use is nonsensical, his ideas of biomechanics don't even match what the Bujinkan arts teach, his grasp on historical martial aspects is questionable at best... the videos he's done with Jesse Encamp are filled with idiotic statements and mistakes... not someone I'd bother to listen to.
Sean is incredibly idealistic and well meaning, and genuinely believes in what he's doing (I have less generous feelings towards Kacem's motivations...), however he again seems to only see what he's looking for, and only looks for what he wants to see... this leads him to find something that could simply be coincidence, or has some very vague similarity, and he presents it as almost absolute proof... all of which falls down when looked at a bit closer.
None of this is helped by the very structure of the Bujinkan itself (or, what was the Bujinkan... it's present actual existence is a bit more of a philosophical quandry), where the schools were never taught separately (my personal belief is that this is primarily because Hatsumi never learnt them in any genuine fashion... he learnt from Takamatsu, but it was most likely some foundational concepts and mechanics, and the bulk of the information was in the form of written notes and scrolls, not actual physical study), but they have now been separated out to individual soke... who have, in turn, been giving out Menkyo Kaiden ranking to people who have never really studied the schools as distinct entities, including Sean getting Menkyo in Koto Ryu from Noguchi-sensei, which just acts to bolster credibility, until you realise that the sokeship means nothing, as it's sokeship in something that has not been taught in a real sense at all. This makes all the new soke-ships nothing more than paper titles, and, as these students have aligned themselves with one teacher or another over the years, it means that, even though you may be studying or training something that is from, say, Gyokko Ryu, you get ranked in Koto Ryu, because that's what Noguchi has to offer (other than more Dan grades).
We then end up with people with traditional ranks in schools they've never really done, teaching things unrelated under the name of the school they're "ranked" in, leaving nothing of credibility with the rank at all. Here in Australia, Duncan Stewart in Tasmania, who has aligned himself with Nagato, has Menkyo Kaiden in Shinden Fudo Ryu now... then you look at his "Shinden Fudo Ryu" classes, and it's a mixture of Shinden Fudo Ryu, Gyokko Ryu, Koto Ryu, Kukishin... so why say it's Shinden Fudo Ryu? It's not. It's a conflagration of a mixture, like the Bujinkan has always been... the Menkyo Kaiden means exactly nothing that way. We also have people like Pol Mac Fionmhacain who got Menkyo Kaiden in Gyokushin Ryu from Kan-sensei in 2024... in a school that has never been seen... that mysteriously appeared after Takamatsu died... so what, precisely, is that Menkyo Kaiden in? And don't get me started on some of the bizarre Menkyo Kaiden that Hatsumi gave out... Tachijutsu? What?
Yes, we can only speculate, of course. I think the story of recreating ninjutsu within traditional ryūha is the most credible speculation. The ninjutsu elements in Togakure-ryu such Hensōjutsu (disguise and impersonation), Tenmon (meteorology), Boryaku (strategy), etc.—which are mentioned in Togakure-ryū scrolls, could be surviving fragments of a "failed" attempt to recreate ninjutsu teachings. So, Takamatsu may have packaged these elements with fancy taijutsu for marketing purposes.
Seishin-teki kyōyō (spiritual refinement)
Taijutsu (unarmed combat, using one's body as the only weapon)
Kenjutsu (sword fighting)
Bōjutsu (stick and staff fighting)
Shurikenjutsu (throwing shuriken)
Sōjutsu (spear fighting)
Naginatajutsu (naginata fighting)
Kusarigamajutsu (kusarigama fighting)
Kayakujutsu (pyrotechnics and explosives)
Hensōjutsu (disguise and impersonation)
Shinobi-iri (stealth and entering methods)
Bajutsu (horsemanship)
Sui-ren (water training)
Bōryaku (military strategy)
Chōhō (espionage)
Intonjutsu (escaping and concealment)
Tenmon (meteorology)
Chi-mon (geography)
Yeah, as mentioned, largely the Dai no Hyoho from the Kuki archives, the Bansenshukai and Ninpiden (each of which have their own historical questions), and writings of Ito Gingetsu, which are not necessarily considered historically accurate accounts either...
I will ask my sensei, but I think.
1. These ninjutsu parts of the scroll are no longer taught.
If we're talking within the Bujinkan, they were never commonly taught... they're a minor aspect, after all, and not hugely exciting, as well as not having much physical to work with.
2. They were barely/not taught in the first place.
See above.
I have been a practitioner of Bujinkan for a few years I really enjoy the art and the training,
Great! This is the most important thing.
I don’t buy the Hatsumi/Takamatsu narrative at all.
And this is a very healthy attitude to have!
For me, saying that 80% of the lineage is marketing (with only 2—but important—schools having legi historical roots) is not necessarily a bad thing for Hatsumi and Takamatsu. It just means they were geniuses who managed to invent a very nice system.
I don't think I'd go so far as "genius"... talented, sure... savvy, I'd go with.... but "genius" might be doing a bit too much heavy lifting there... still, the main thing is that you enjoy it, and get value out of it.
