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Ty K. Doe

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I'm about to ask a question that may sound like I'm saying one type of TKD is better than another, but I'm not. I'll try to explain with my question to follow. I study an ITF style of Tae Kwon Do. I love it for its forms and self-defense techniques. I have been viewing some videos of WTF matches and training techniques. I have to say that I'm impressed with it's sparring abillity. They use techniques that I believe most good tournament fighters use anyway, but they seem to have refined these techniques (like the cut step and others) into their training.

I know every martial artists believes that their system has techniques that are just as good or superior to other systems of martial arts. That they have counters, attacks, and defenses that are just as good as others. However, in a tournament situation there are rules that limits what you can or can not do in a match.

My question is, (and I know this is going to create a headache, but I'm willing to ask to satisfy my curiosity) if ITF and WTF were to compete in a match, not unlike that of the olympics, does ITF have what it takes to win over WTF?

Now I know most ITFers are going to say yes, and WTFers are going to say no. So perhaps, whichever side of the fence your on you could explain your reasons with details on why you think the way you do.
 

karatekid1975

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Hiya Ty.

I do WTF, but I don't think the feds or TKD politics have anything to do with someone's ability to fight. If you train hard, work on your combos and technique, I don't see anything wrong with your ability to fight in a match.
 

Damian Mavis

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You mean fight WTF rules? WTF would have an advantage over your average ITF fighter who usually uses his hands alot but I have fought WTF rules against WTF fighters and I did just fine. I kept it in my mind not to rely on combos that involved any punches to the head. Have I fought olympic level WTF fighters? No...... so I have no idea just how good WTF fighters can get. I've seen amazing kickers from both federations at tournaments of both styles.

If you match up ITF with WTF using ITF rules.....then the average ITF fighter has a definate advantage. All the WTF fighters I fought ITF style left themselves open to hand techniques to the head everytime they moved.

Now...to demonstrate the point even further, if you match up an ITF fighter with a Muay Thai fighter then the Muay Thai fighter has a definate advantage over the ITF fighter just because of the leg kicks alone.

My point is, it's not the style: it's the rules in place and how they train.....if you train for 10 years and no one ever throws a kick to your legs and then you spar someone who kicks you in the leg... you get hit in the leg! You don't even react! you didn't train for it. I'm talking from experience, I've got pretty good reflexes but the first time someone kicked me in the leg I was shocked at my lack of reaction.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
 

Klondike93

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I like some of the drills and techniques that the Olympic TKD people train with and they are pretty good kickers to.
But I think an ITF guy would have the advantage because they have learned to use their hands more.


:asian:
 
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white dragon

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The thing about WTF/Olympic fighters is they've refined their techniques in order to be a better fighter in a competition, breaking down the techniques to either make them faster or harder to see coming in. As an example if you watch some of the top fighters throw a turning kick they'll fire it out more as a front kick at first and then switch the hip position once the knee has been raised, turning it into a turning kick. This is done to fool your oponent, but because it you're not putting your full hip power into it you loose a lot of power, but you can easily score a point with it.

Another example is if you watch someone do an axe kick. As the kick is fired they'll often make a circle motion with their arms flapping to their sides. The motion is to distract their oponent and also guard thier sides from a turning kick.

These techniques are for sparring and in a good school if they're taught they're taught along side the more practicle and "traditional" way. So a good student would know both if they were interested competition sparring. I don't have a problem with a school not teaching these modern sparring techniques as I feel in a lot of cases they "water down" the artform. I do have a problem with tkd schools that only teach it as a sport, unless they advertise their school as a martial sport, rather than art. SImply because it can mislead people as to thinking they're learning something that is there to help them protect themselves in a "real life" situation.

Although I'm WTF I think ITF would have some of an advantage over WTF fighters, simply because a large amount of WTF schools don't teach people to defend against facial attacks in sparring. I've been fortunate enough to have started my training in a club that attracts people from all different style of tkd, this has meant I've had to learn to keep my hands up and also meant I've had a chance to fight people with different ideas. Going up against a couple of TAGB guys I did ok, simply because I knew that I'd have watch out for punches. The second match was over very quickly in about the forth kick though. It seems although the guy was used to having punches coming at his face he'd never had anything thrown full contact at him, I knocked him out with a turning kick to the head. It wasn't full power but I think the shock of being hit just got to him for a few seconds.

In my mind I think the best way to train would be a combination of both ITF and WTF. Using the full contact idea of WTF, while putting in the punches to the face and sweeps of ITF and TAGB.

To answer the question though:
"if ITF and WTF were to compete in a match, not unlike that of the olympics, does ITF have what it takes to win over WTF? "

I think the answer is "no". Simply because WTF fighters will be more used to training in these types of situations. But as always, "it depends on the indivdual"....

With Respect.
 
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Ty K. Doe

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by white dragon
In my mind I think the best way to train would be a combination of both ITF and WTF. Using the full contact idea of WTF, while putting in the punches to the face and sweeps of ITF and TAGB.

Thanks for your input. I think I would like to see (to a degree) a mesh between the two federations. I feel each has a lot to offer one another. However with the current state of politics between them, I think pigs will fly before that happens.
 

Klondike93

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Originally posted by Ty K. Doe



Thanks for your input. I think I would like to see (to a degree) a mesh between the two federations. I feel each has a lot to offer one another. However with the current state of politics between them, I think pigs will fly before that happens.

Ditto

:asian:
 
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white dragon

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me too, sadly. I guess the ony way would be to form yet another federation, but that would mean more politics, more splintering, more rivalry, etc.....

so then I guess you could call it a new form of martial arts, but then it all gets counted as worthless until people see it proved that it's not.... *sigh*
 
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WaterCircleHarmony

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I agree.

Although the new federation could be called the "Taekwondo Federation".
Members could subscribe to both the ITF and WTF so that certification could be gained in both but could be trained in at the same time and same place.

I'm probably being really naive...

I do touch contact ITF sparring and i sometimes wonder if the opponent would have been able to do the jab to the head even though i had just scored with a spinning back kick to the floating rib area. Imagine this scenario if it was full contact. hmmm.....

with respect. ;)
 
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white dragon

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That's actually a really good idea, students could be taught both sets of patterns, both styles of sparring could be taught, as well as crossing them over.

And my personal rule would be no handing out of blackbelts unless they've really been earned! :)
 

Klondike93

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I'm not sure but I think there is one called the ITA or something like that. You can find their ad in Black Belt.



:asian:
 
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