Time in each rank

[masherdong]

Hello,

I dont know if this has been asked before or not. I did a search and couldnt find a thread on this.

My question is, how long should a student stay at each rank?
We have white, yellow, orange, purple, blue, green, brown, 1st brown, and black.

Is it bad to hold a student back if they already know their requirements for each ranking? My instructor held me at blue for over a year, even though I had all my requirements for green. Now, it seems he is now moving people up faster and not holding them back like he did me. Whatever happened to be humble at each rank and not rushing? So, I just want to see what are the time frames that you guys have for each ranking. Or, should I even care?

Thanks in advance.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

We can grade every 3 to 4 months and have to skip a grading before black belt (thus sitting at the belt before black for 6-12 months). A student usually goes up about 3 belts a year but this is dependent on them having their grading requirements up to speed and having a good run with injuries. Our instructor only prevents a student from grading if they have missed to much class time or have not got their grading requirements to a high enough standard.

 

[Ken Morgan]

To me there should be a structure in place that everyone has to follow. The Canadian Kendo Federation structure is http://www.kendo-canada.com/grading2009/2009GradingMemo.pdf

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[MJS]

Hello,

I dont know if this has been asked before or not. I did a search and couldnt find a thread on this.

My question is, how long should a student stay at each rank?
We have white, yellow, orange, purple, blue, green, brown, 1st brown, and black.

Is it bad to hold a student back if they already know their requirements for each ranking? My instructor held me at blue for over a year, even though I had all my requirements for green. Now, it seems he is now moving people up faster and not holding them back like he did me. Whatever happened to be humble at each rank and not rushing? So, I just want to see what are the time frames that you guys have for each ranking. Or, should I even care?

Thanks in advance.

Many schools have an average time frame. For example, it may be 2 months between white and yellow. However, people hear this and get upset when it doesnt happen. What they fail to see is that its 2 mos. if you're going 2-3 times a week and training on your own.

People will advance at different rates, so its hard to pinpoint an exact time. We could say that when they have the material, they move on. Well, if you're a quick study, you could blast thru in a month. But, if that happens, then that leads to the 10yo 3rd degree black belts running around.

Rank, IMO, should be up to the teacher. I've had those fast learners in my classes, but I've always managed to find something for them to work on. As time goes on, the time in grade should increase. Once BB is reached, I would rather see the number of years for each rank. In other words, from 1st to 2nd degree black is 2yrs. 2nd to 3rd is 3, and so on.

 

[jks9199]

In what style? How much material does each rank consist of?

My style only has 4 belts (5 for kids; we add a gold belt); white, green, brown, black. We don't have grades within those belts, either. Average progression is about 1 to 2 years to green, another 1 to 2 to brown, and about 2 years before black. Minimum training time for black is 5 years; typical is more like 6 to 7, but 10 or more is not unheard of.

Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu only has 3 belts; white, green, and black -- but they have 9 kyu grades between white and black. They don't have a common curriculum, and I'm not sure how long is typical for black.

Some styles test every other month or so, and you can move up as fast as you learn the material. Others require specific time between grades. There's no right answer for all styles, because the training is different in each style.

With regard to holding someone back -- sometimes there's more involved than simply knowing the external material. You may know the motions of the forms, or all the self defense techniques, but you may be missing an important principle that you just need time and practice to internalize. Or you simply aren't doing the techniques at the appropriate level, even though you know the basic motions. If you're concerned... politely ask your instructor, but be prepared for the answer to be "because."

 

[ACJ]

My question is, how long should a student stay at each rank?

Long enough.

The question doesn't have a simple answer, because it depends on the system's standards, the system's structure, the system's rankings, the syllabus, the class structure, the teacher's methods, the teacher's aims, the students' ability, the students' attitudes and the students' aims, just to name a few.

I would say that my aims as a teacher would lead me to try and find the balance between motivation by giving out new belts, and motivation by making each belt feel earned as well as the effect on the standard as a teacher. So for me it would differ for each student and their attitude, skill and aims.

 

[Josh Oakley]

Hello,

I dont know if this has been asked before or not. I did a search and couldnt find a thread on this.

My question is, how long should a student stay at each rank?
We have white, yellow, orange, purple, blue, green, brown, 1st brown, and black.

Is it bad to hold a student back if they already know their requirements for each ranking? My instructor held me at blue for over a year, even though I had all my requirements for green. Now, it seems he is now moving people up faster and not holding them back like he did me. Whatever happened to be humble at each rank and not rushing? So, I just want to see what are the time frames that you guys have for each ranking. Or, should I even care?

Thanks in advance.

Honestly, you shouldn't care. That's their rank. Not yours. If your instructor held you back a year, he had his reasons. I've had students take a year to get past blue, and some who got through it in as little as 5 months. But you shouldn't compare times. It will either dishearten you at your own progress when you see people advance more quickly than you, or puff you up when you advance more quickly than others. neither is good.

 

[Blindside]

Our kenpo school didn't have minimum time in rank for underbelts, but you had to both know the material and then perform it at a certain standard. The naturals did advance faster. The flip side was that there wasn't really a maximum time you could spend in rank. Most kids would spend years at orange/purple belt until they got old enough to retain and perform the material for the intermediate ranks. The philosophy was simple, promote the student when they were ready, however long that took, be it one month or 5 years. It sounds like that is what your instructor is doing, but if he is changing the standard of "performance" than you are kind of SOL. Minimum time limits don't change performance standards, they just frustrate those who do manage advance faster than those arbitrary standards.

 

[Kajowaraku]

About a year per kyuu isn't uncommon for us. If you train hard it can be two kyuu per year (up to about 6th kyu at least) but than it gets substantially harder and slower. To get a shodan in taijutsu or jujutsu you need to get through 10 kyuu (including one for your "white" belt, all the other jkyuu are plain green with stripes). If you ever hope to rise above shodan in either of them you'll need shodan in the other too, totalling 20 checktests before you're a full fledged black belt. That usually takes at least ten years, even for shodan in one of both, the other tends to follow a year or a few years later than (since usually you take checktests for taijutsu and jujutus in turn). Only when shodan can you begin taking tests for the armed disciplines such as bojutsu, hanbojutsu and bikenjutsu. It's a long and challenging road. Some things take time to properly settle in, regardless of how much we train. Maturing in your art will eventually always boil down to accumulating experience and biding your time.

I understand your frustration though. The dojohall where we train is shared with other arts. When I see how quickly people that started out there are boasting new rank, while students that joined us a year ago still haven't even earned 10th kyuu,... well I guess it just doesn't encourage people that hunt after high grades to sign up. The real question of course would be: "why would we think *that* is bad thing?".

just my coinage of little monetary value.

 

[xJOHNx]

You shouldn't look at the color of your belt. It is nothing more but a piece of string. It is what you do that matters.

Although speaking for myself, I also want to have my blackbelt to boast about. Only human..

 

[Bruno@MT]

Honestly, you shouldn't care. That's their rank. Not yours. If your instructor held you back a year, he had his reasons. I've had students take a year to get past blue, and some who got through it in as little as 5 months. But you shouldn't compare times. It will either dishearten you at your own progress when you see people advance more quickly than you, or puff you up when you advance more quickly than others. neither is good.

+1.

I have been wearing white for 8 months now, and the most senior student already wears it for a year. And this is with me training 2 times per week with my sensei, and 1-2 times per week on my own.

We are a new sattelite dojo, and when we started, all of us where new. Without senior students, it takes longer to achieve a certain level. Our new members learn things faster than we did, because they have the luxury of having trainings partners who know what they are doing.

Additionally, my sensei is not yet conducting exams, the head sensei of our dojo is doing that. It is important for my sensei that when we do our exam, we show the head sensei that we perform better than 'It'll do'.

In the end, there is a difference between knowing enough to pass the exam, and mastering your techniques. Spending a couple months longer per grade will not hold you back in any way. Even though you may know your techniques, there is still plenty of room for improvement. Whether you wear that belt a couple months sooner, rather than later is completely immaterial regarding to your progress.

A month or 2 ago, I knew all of my techniques and theory (names etc) well enough to pass the exam. For several reasons, we didn't get to do the exm yet, but looking back, my skill now is higher than my skill then. Enough so that I notice it. So staying at my grade did not hold me back in any way.

Real progress is made by training for years and years, and sticking with it. Don't worry about things on the timescale of a couple of months.

 

[Carol]

Hello,

I dont know if this has been asked before or not. I did a search and couldnt find a thread on this.

My question is, how long should a student stay at each rank?
We have white, yellow, orange, purple, blue, green, brown, 1st brown, and black.

Is it bad to hold a student back if they already know their requirements for each ranking? My instructor held me at blue for over a year, even though I had all my requirements for green. Now, it seems he is now moving people up faster and not holding them back like he did me. Whatever happened to be humble at each rank and not rushing? So, I just want to see what are the time frames that you guys have for each ranking. Or, should I even care?

Thanks in advance.

But you went from white to blue in less than 8 months total time, yes?

From white to gold in less than a month:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48701

From gold to orange in less than two months:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50740

From orange to purple in less than three months:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=842124#post842124

From purple to blue in less than three months:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=884634#post884634

Maybe he felt that you needed extra time at that rank after moving so quickly through the prior ranks? Hard to say.

 

[K-man]

After two and a half years of Aikido (regular 4 hours per week), I am proud to wear my white belt. I may get to a black belt in another five or six years, if I keep progressing. Time doesn't faze me. However, I know that when I do gain my BB I will be a good aikidoka!

 

[celtic_crippler]

I think that if you have a concern with it then you should discuss it with your instructor behind closed doors.

Personally, I feel the time-in for each rank varies per individual. Factors like natural ability, intelligence, time spent practicing outside the dojo, and prior experience in martial arts are but a few obvious examples that impact advancement.

I think if you have a commercial set up and/or several students that it might be a good idea in the interest of harmony to require a minimum time-in rank so that there is at least some appearance of a unified standard.

 

[alphacat]

Would you mind explaining to me please what the requirements for advancing to the next rank are?

I understand that holding long enough the current rank and attending classes during this period of time are part of the requirements for advancing to the next rank, but once these two are fulfilled, what is next?
Are you to fight another trainee in front of the instructor for him to test your skills?

By the way,
I’m taking Muay Thai lessons in my gym, and I never saw anyone wearing a belt on his shorts.
Is this whole ranking issue different in Muay Thai?

Thanks guys.

 

[Jenna]

Hello,

I dont know if this has been asked before or not. I did a search and couldnt find a thread on this.

My question is, how long should a student stay at each rank?
We have white, yellow, orange, purple, blue, green, brown, 1st brown, and black.

Is it bad to hold a student back if they already know their requirements for each ranking? My instructor held me at blue for over a year, even though I had all my requirements for green. Now, it seems he is now moving people up faster and not holding them back like he did me. Whatever happened to be humble at each rank and not rushing? So, I just want to see what are the time frames that you guys have for each ranking. Or, should I even care?

Thanks in advance.

That is quite a formidable collection of martial applications and qualifications you have indexed in your signature sir.. I think your resume must be very very impressive indeed.

If I were your instructor I would grant you your next rank quite as soon as I possibly could and keep you a happy student.

Commendations, Jenna xo

 

[ap Oweyn]

I'll go with the "who cares?" angle.

The time a person spends at each rank only matters in so far that the black belt matters. If the black belt is the end goal (which so many people seem to believe it is), then the "markers" on your way to the black belt hold significance. If the black belt is just another test, with plenty of work still to be done after it, then the markers to get to it are still important, but only in so far that they indicate skill development.

I guess it's a question of perspective though. When I was studying eskrima, early on, my friend Scott skipped a belt and "got ahead" of me in the ranking system. I was outraged. I had 5 years of taekwondo experience already. And I made every class I could. But Scott had very few obligations outside of the school. So he was there all the time.

Did he deserve to skip a rank? In retrospect, he was better than me in several important ways. At the time, I wasn't willing to see that. But, in the end, Scott dropped out for personal reasons. I kept going and got my black belt. So, in the long view, it didn't matter much.

More to the point, me having a black belt and Scott not having one didn't fundamentally change what each of us were capable of doing. I know what I know, regardless of what I wear. The belt is a nice symbol and all. But, as a counseling professor of mine was fond of saying, "the map isn't the territory." In other words, the thing that symbolizes your actions is no substitute for your actual actions.


Stuart

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Hello,

I dont know if this has been asked before or not. I did a search and couldnt find a thread on this.

My question is, how long should a student stay at each rank?
We have white, yellow, orange, purple, blue, green, brown, 1st brown, and black.

Varries from style to style, org to org within a style, and school to school within an org.

Usually, belt colors are not the actual rank. As mentioned by a previous poster, some belt colors encompass multiple ranks.

Is it bad to hold a student back if they already know their requirements for each ranking? My instructor held me at blue for over a year, even though I had all my requirements for green. Now, it seems he is now moving people up faster and not holding them back like he did me. Whatever happened to be humble at each rank and not rushing? So, I just want to see what are the time frames that you guys have for each ranking. Or, should I even care?

Thanks in advance.

Hard to say why you were held at one rank. The best way to find out is simply to ask him. It could be that there were certain things in your execution that he wanted to see sorted out? Or perhaps with newer students he is moving them along faster in order to keep them happy?

Anything that is answered here in that regard is just speculation.

I do believe that a student should not be promoted until they have shown that they have a solid handle on their current material. It only hurts the student in the long run.

Daniel

 

[Jaspthecat]

Belt and rank are folly IMO.

I did the whole 'got to get the next belt' thing when I did KD as a kid and got up to a red belt (3rd Kup IIRC) by the time I moved on.

I now do Krav Maga which has a grading system but TBH I can't be arsed, I would prefer to demonstrate good technique and spar well than say 'oh I'm this or that' Afterall, I'm sure every one of us have heard a story about how a karate/TKD (insert MA here) black belt had his **** handed to him in a real situation.

I also do Muay Thai, my gym doesn't have a belt system which is fine by me, I judge people's ability by how they can kick butt in the ring and not by the colour of their sash.

I understand that some people like the idea of progression, but as some have pointed out, there are many occasions, where the significance has been watered down by people moving too quickly through the ranks.

To the OP, don't fret over it....

 

[masherdong]

But you went from white to blue in less than 8 months total time, yes?

From white to gold in less than a month:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48701

From gold to orange in less than two months:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50740

From orange to purple in less than three months:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=842124#post842124

From purple to blue in less than three months:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=884634#post884634


Maybe he felt that you needed extra time at that rank after moving so quickly through the prior ranks? Hard to say.

Yes, but now another guy is blowing past the rankings as I did and he isnt holding him back. So, go figure.