this is NOT a hate crime???

Twin Fist

Grandmaster
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
7,185
Reaction score
210
Location
Nacogdoches, Tx
http://www.ohio.com/news/50172282.html

Akron police say they aren't ready to call it a hate crime or a gang initiation.

But to Marty Marshall, his wife and two kids, it seems pretty clear.

It came after a family night of celebrating America and freedom with a fireworks show at Firestone Stadium. Marshall, his family and two friends were gathered outside a friend's home in South Akron.

Out of nowhere, the six were attacked by dozens of teenage boys, who shouted ''This is our world'' and ''This is a black world'' as they confronted Marshall and his family.

The Marshalls, who are white, say the crowd of teens who attacked them and two friends June 27 on Girard Street numbered close to 50. The teens were all black.

''This was almost like being a terrorist act,'' Marshall said. ''And we allow this to go on in our neighborhoods?''

They said it started when one teen, without any words or warning, blindsided and assaulted Marshall's friend as he stood outside with the others.

When Marshall, 39, jumped in, he found himself being attacked by the growing group of teens.

His daughter, Rachel, 15, who weighs about 90 pounds, tried to come to his rescue. The teens pushed her to the ground.

His wife, Yvonne, pushed their son, Donald, 14, into bushes to keep him protected.

''My thing is,'' Marshall said, ''I didn't want this, but I was in fear for my wife, my kids and my friends. I felt I had to stay out there to protect them, because those guys were just jumping, swinging fists and everything.

''I'm lucky. They didn't break my ribs or bruise my ribs. I thank God, they concentrated on my thick head because I do have one. They were trying to take my head off my spine, basically.''

After several minutes of punches and kicks, the attack ended and the group ran off. The Marshalls' two adult male friends were not seriously hurt.
 

jks9199

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
23,440
Reaction score
3,748
Location
Northern VA
There are a lot of reasons why the DA might not want to publicly define a particular offense as hate or gang related. That doesn't mean that they don't believe it to be one -- but that they don't want to advertise it as such, yet.
 

CanuckMA

Master of Arts
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
1,726
Reaction score
57
Location
Toronto
They very well might. Hate crime or gang activity has to meet certain criterion of proof. It may just be easier to convict as assault.
 

Big Don

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
10,551
Reaction score
189
Location
Sanger CA
Don't be silly, Twin Fist, White people can't be victims of hate crimes.
 

Bill Mattocks

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
Messages
15,580
Reaction score
4,317
Location
Michigan
Technically, there is no such thing as a 'hate crime' per se. The 'hate crime' is generally a sentence modifier that allows for lengthier sentencing for an existing crime when there is a racist element involved. However, the media does use the term, and the police generally play along. In the description above, it appears the charge would be assault and battery or perhaps aggravated assault.

The fact that an assault was black-on-white, or white-on-black, does not automatically make it a hate crime. The appellation is generally applied when it appears that there is a racist motive for the crime, or a race-related component of the crime.

If the police catch the youths involved, and charges are brought, the DA may yet ask for the 'hate crime' sentence modifier if they are found guilty.

If I am reading your post correctly, you are outraged because of what appears to you to be a double-standard. The world is full of double-standards. If it makes you feel any better, statistically, a white person who assaults a black person is much less likely to be given a prison sentence than a black person who assaults a white person, and even if given a prison sentence, sentences for blacks tend to be longer than sentences for whites for similar crimes. Sounds like a double-standard. Does this outrage you too, or only when whites are the victims?
 

KELLYG

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
717
Reaction score
21
Location
North Carolina
What outrages me is that people can't just chill on their front lawns and celibrate a holiday with out the risk of being beaten!!! It does not matter to me what the race is of the attacker or the people being attacked.
 

LuckyKBoxer

Master Black Belt
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
1,390
Reaction score
39
An Example should be made, all these thugs should be executed post haste.
 

arnisador

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 28, 2001
Messages
44,573
Reaction score
456
Location
Terre Haute, IN
"Hate crime" is, unfortunately, too simple a description of these crimes. If person A kills B because A hates B for sleeping with A's wife, that isn't a "Hate crime" because he hated a person. But it would seem like in this case it might be applicable. Wait and see. There's time yet to adjust the charges as evidence emerges and as one or two of the six strike deals with the DA's office.
 

Big Don

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
10,551
Reaction score
189
Location
Sanger CA
"Hate crime" is, unfortunately, too simple a description of these crimes. If person A kills B because A hates B for sleeping with A's wife, that isn't a "Hate crime" because he hated a person. But it would seem like in this case it might be applicable. Wait and see. There's time yet to adjust the charges as evidence emerges and as one or two of the six strike deals with the DA's office.
If a white guy, while kicking the hell out of a black guy calls the black guy names or uses a slur, that is a hate crime...
If a group of black people attack a group of white people while yelling slurs...
Gee, if someone remained completely silent while beating people of other races, would that be a hate crime?
 

Nolerama

Master Black Belt
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
1,227
Reaction score
71
Location
St. Louis, MO
If a white guy, while kicking the hell out of a black guy calls the black guy names or uses a slur, that is a hate crime...
If a group of black people attack a group of white people while yelling slurs...
Gee, if someone remained completely silent while beating people of other races, would that be a hate crime?

Don, I'm sensing some frustration from you in reaction to this incident. Don't you think that your frustration might some day translate into hatred and that you're just perpetuating the cycle?

The situation sucks. But the world isn't white and black. But I think that frustration and hatred from mere semantics is not the way to go about changing the mindset of our flawed society.
 

Big Don

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
10,551
Reaction score
189
Location
Sanger CA
Don, I'm sensing some frustration from you in reaction to this incident. Don't you think that your frustration might some day translate into hatred and that you're just perpetuating the cycle?

The situation sucks. But the world isn't white and black. But I think that frustration and hatred from mere semantics is not the way to go about changing the mindset of our flawed society.
The only frustration is with the misleading label of "Hate Crime" which is used when people mean "THOUGHT CRIME". Assault is assault no matter what the motive is, just as grand theft is grand theft no matter what the motive is. But, some people, generally not conservatives, want "Hate Crimes" in which an assaulted person is also yelled at (adding insult to injury?) somehow MORE IMPORTANT than a crime committed by your friendly neighborhood sociopath.
It is as if "being mean" to someone was worse than kicking their ***. Yeah, I'm frustrated, because idiotic crap like this frustrates me.
 

Nolerama

Master Black Belt
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
1,227
Reaction score
71
Location
St. Louis, MO
One could argue that the difference between an assault and a "hate crime" assault is similar to (but not exactly the same as) the difference between manslaughter and homicide.

Either way, it's frustrating. But that's the way Americans do things. At the very least we can debate the validity of a crime's condition. People in other countries would kill for the opportunity to nit pick over the label of a crime, or lament over a perceived double standard.
 

celtic_crippler

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 15, 2006
Messages
3,968
Reaction score
137
Location
Airstrip One
Out of nowhere, the six were attacked by dozens of teenage boys, who shouted ''This is our world'' and ''This is a black world'' as they confronted Marshall and his family.
The Marshalls, who are white, say the crowd of teens who attacked them and two friends June 27 on Girard Street numbered close to 50. The teens were all black.

Sounds like one to me.

If it read like this:

Out of nowhere, the six were attacked by dozens of teenage boys, who shouted ''This is our world'' and ''This is a WHITE world'' as they confronted Marshall and his family.
The Marshalls, who are BLACK, say the crowd of teens who attacked them and two friends June 27 on Girard Street numbered close to 50. The teens were all black.

It would be on every news channel along with Al Sharpton screaming for justice. Where's the media coverage? I know where the double standard is...
 

Bill Mattocks

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
Messages
15,580
Reaction score
4,317
Location
Michigan
The concept of 'hate crimes' exists due to the public perception that when racism is the basis for a crime, it is more serious that other reasons for a crime. If I punch you out because I don't like you, that's one thing. But if I punch you out because you're black (or white, asian, etc) then that's another.

I'm not overly fond of the 'hate crime' statutes, but I understand why they exist.

The problem being described here, though, as I said earlier, seems to be frustration over an apparent double-standard. White assaults black, and the media labels it a 'hate crime'. Black assaults white, and it's just an assault.

But that's not true; it's just the way it looks at times. The media doesn't bring charges - the police do, and the DA prosecutes crimes and decides whether or not to go for a 'hate crime' sentence modifier.

It is what it is. But there's nothing really here to get aggravated about.

What is it you want to change, exactly?
 

Bill Mattocks

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
Messages
15,580
Reaction score
4,317
Location
Michigan
Sounds like one to me.

If it read like this:

Out of nowhere, the six were attacked by dozens of teenage boys, who shouted ''This is our world'' and ''This is a WHITE world'' as they confronted Marshall and his family.
The Marshalls, who are BLACK, say the crowd of teens who attacked them and two friends June 27 on Girard Street numbered close to 50. The teens were all black.

It would be on every news channel along with Al Sharpton screaming for justice. Where's the media coverage? I know where the double standard is...

The 'double standard' is in the media. Yawn and so what? What can anyone do about that?

And again - blacks get longer prison sentences than whites for the same crimes on average - where is your outrage over that?

Or is it just double-standards against whites that offends you?
 

CoryKS

Senior Master
Joined
Aug 30, 2006
Messages
4,403
Reaction score
183
Location
Olathe, KS
The police and the media have two different objectives. The police are interested in maintaining order, so they're not likely to cater to everyone's sense of outrage to achieve parity. The media are interested in stirring **** up in order to sell their product, and the fastest way to do that, at least in the case of white-on-black crime, is to play up the hate crime angle. Keep in mind that the media could also be downplaying the hate crime angle in the case of black-on-white crime for the same reason - to create outrage among those who resent the double-standard.
 

celtic_crippler

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 15, 2006
Messages
3,968
Reaction score
137
Location
Airstrip One
The 'double standard' is in the media. Yawn and so what? What can anyone do about that?

And again - blacks get longer prison sentences than whites for the same crimes on average - where is your outrage over that?

Or is it just double-standards against whites that offends you?

Double standards in general irritate me because it denotes a lack of fairness; of justice. If you want to start a thread about the disproportionate sentencing of blacks versus other races then you can find out how I feel about that instead of simply assuming. You know what they say about ***-u-ming.

Two wrongs don't make a right, and blaming the media doesn't change the facts. And just because I point out a double standard where blacks happen to be in the wrong doesn't mean I have a white sheet and hood folded up in my chest of drawers.

As a species, we're never going to gain any ground overcoming the stupidity of prejudice until the bar is the same for everyone; period.

Regardless of subject matter, when there is even a perception of unequal treatment it only fuels the fire of discontent and furthers the wedge of disunity among the "people."
 

Latest Discussions

Top