This guys angles don't collapse.

mook jong man

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In my lineage we place great importance on maintaining the ''optimal' angle in the arms.
The body maybe pushed back but there will still be " forward force" and the angles of the arms will not collapse.

Most of the chi sau you see around is really quite crappy , with the angles of the arms all over the place and the stances unstable because they are too upright.

But I was impressed with this guys chi sau , even though technically he might use a few different moves to what I would use , his maintaining of angles cannot be faulted.

There is also a little scene involving a bamboo branch that I'm sure will not be lost on my fellow Wing Chun practitioners.

[video=youtube_share;lDCjiQQlTNg]http://youtu.be/lDCjiQQlTNg[/video]
 

BlazingSun

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I'm not sure my opinion of the fights in the ring, but yea this guy is a machine. The very end sequence was brutal. To just imagine the possibilities in a fight when you can move like that. And that's why Kung Fu teaches us to be peaceful because this guy could destroy someone in a streetfight lol
 

drop bear

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He jinks sideways. That step out creates a tiny reactionary gap that forces the other guy to catch up.getting you a beat ahead.

So if the other guy is coming straight on you get a slight advantage.

I employ that method a bit because I tend to move straight in.

The ring fight is a demo.
 

Marnetmar

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Some parts of the video do seem a little iffy to me taking a second look at it. For example, these demonstrations seem to all be with his students, and in the ring it was a demo rather than an actual bout, so he'll have his students stick to a select pattern so he can show off his skills. If the students had been covering their centerlines more effectively the sifu wouldn't get as many of his multiple strikes in.

The other thing is that Wing Chun against Wing Chun is really too comfortable in my eyes, he doesn't perform his demonstrations against an opponent who disengages all the time which is what would happen if he was overwhelmed with so many speedy strikes, I really think the demonstration would be more convincing if he was to use that same speedy response and flurry of techniques against someone who was disengaged and tried to enter. He uses Bong Sau and Tan Sau extremely well with side blows and chainpunches but no arm traps. One other thing I've noticed is the sifu in the video starts with a kind of Lap Sau exercise and does the same series of about 12 strikes really fast, going from one side to the other. So his speed is from perfecting those transitions from each tool, in a manner like a chainpunch.
 

drop bear

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Having some set combos is not a too terrible idea though.

And yes he is better than his training partners which will always make a person look slicker.
 

Marnetmar

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Set combos aren't a bad idea at all for training, I just don't think they're good for demonstration purposes.
 

Marnetmar

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Well if teacher and student both know what they have coming at them, it seems like it takes away from the demonstration of skill don't you think?
 

cwk

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ok the positive first-
The guy's got fast hands and a nice relaxed style and I can see he's got skills. He's obviously put a lot of time into is training and for that he has my respect.

The problem I have with the video is the same I have for most videos of the same ilk;
Watch the student who is feeding him the strikes for the majority of the video. He's got his chin held up in the air just accepting getting hit, standing on the spot while feeding his hands slowly down the centre line.
Now, if you're going to do this, you might as well do it slowly as a tutorial, not try to make it look like an action sequence with "danger" music, etc.

I think one of the problems we have in the wing chun community is that a lot of people are not ready to admit that wing chun tested out under stress is just not that pretty. Sure, there are moments in free sparring when something flashy might occur but for the majority of the time it's the basics of footwork, distance, simple techniques and most importantly-timing, that you will be working on. If someone does put up a video of themselves sparring and it doesn't look like a kung fu movie, they get flamed so they make these unrealistic clips instead.
I remember about 2 years ago, I was going to post a video of my students and I free sparring but after watching it I realized I'd get the same comments as usual; where's the tan sao,etc,etc. So I didn't bother and ended up posting a crap video my student made while I was slowly explaining some basic applications after training.
Sorry for the rant lol
Good to be back on the forum
 
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mook jong man

mook jong man

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ok the positive first-
The guy's got fast hands and a nice relaxed style and I can see he's got skills. He's obviously put a lot of time into is training and for that he has my respect.

The problem I have with the video is the same I have for most videos of the same ilk;
Watch the student who is feeding him the strikes for the majority of the video. He's got his chin held up in the air just accepting getting hit, standing on the spot while feeding his hands slowly down the centre line.
Now, if you're going to do this, you might as well do it slowly as a tutorial, not try to make it look like an action sequence with "danger" music, etc.

I think one of the problems we have in the wing chun community is that a lot of people are not ready to admit that wing chun tested out under stress is just not that pretty. Sure, there are moments in free sparring when something flashy might occur but for the majority of the time it's the basics of footwork, distance, simple techniques and most importantly-timing, that you will be working on. If someone does put up a video of themselves sparring and it doesn't look like a kung fu movie, they get flamed so they make these unrealistic clips instead.
I remember about 2 years ago, I was going to post a video of my students and I free sparring but after watching it I realized I'd get the same comments as usual; where's the tan sao,etc,etc. So I didn't bother and ended up posting a crap video my student made while I was slowly explaining some basic applications after training.
Sorry for the rant lol
Good to be back on the forum

Come on mate , you must of liked the bit with the bamboo branch?
That was top shelf that was.
 

drop bear

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Well if teacher and student both know what they have coming at them, it seems like it takes away from the demonstration of skill don't you think?

Yes sort of. You generally can't tell from a demo you are correct. I like to watch sparring to get a gauge.

But that looked mostly unrehearsed with combos being utilised. Which is pretty common.
 

drop bear

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ok the positive first-
The guy's got fast hands and a nice relaxed style and I can see he's got skills. He's obviously put a lot of time into is training and for that he has my respect.

The problem I have with the video is the same I have for most videos of the same ilk;
Watch the student who is feeding him the strikes for the majority of the video. He's got his chin held up in the air just accepting getting hit, standing on the spot while feeding his hands slowly down the centre line.
Now, if you're going to do this, you might as well do it slowly as a tutorial, not try to make it look like an action sequence with "danger" music, etc.

I think one of the problems we have in the wing chun community is that a lot of people are not ready to admit that wing chun tested out under stress is just not that pretty. Sure, there are moments in free sparring when something flashy might occur but for the majority of the time it's the basics of footwork, distance, simple techniques and most importantly-timing, that you will be working on. If someone does put up a video of themselves sparring and it doesn't look like a kung fu movie, they get flamed so they make these unrealistic clips instead.
I remember about 2 years ago, I was going to post a video of my students and I free sparring but after watching it I realized I'd get the same comments as usual; where's the tan sao,etc,etc. So I didn't bother and ended up posting a crap video my student made while I was slowly explaining some basic applications after training.
Sorry for the rant lol
Good to be back on the forum


Yeah but you have to be willing to loose and look silly. And that can be hard with a lot of enviroments.

Bjj story.

My coach tapped a black in his class and was told never to come back as it was disrespectful.

Same coach got dropped on his head by a wrestler repeatedly who just happened to come in one day. And was asked back to train the coach.

Especially if it is a demo for people unscripted sparring with someone who might actually beat you is hard. People don't understand that martial artists are also human and can get caught out like anybody else.
 

cwk

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Yeah, I know it's only a demo and probably (more than likely) made to attract students and I'm sure it will. I guess I just feel a little sad when a student asks me for a link to a video showing good wing chun sparring and I really have to scratch my head.
I've nothing against the guy in the clip, like I said he's obviously skilled I respect him for the hours of training he must have put in. It's just when I see a video like this I think "oh, another one of these". They're ten a penny.
 

drop bear

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Yeah, I know it's only a demo and probably (more than likely) made to attract students and I'm sure it will. I guess I just feel a little sad when a student asks me for a link to a video showing good wing chun sparring and I really have to scratch my head.
I've nothing against the guy in the clip, like I said he's obviously skilled I respect him for the hours of training he must have put in. It's just when I see a video like this I think "oh, another one of these". They're ten a penny.


Ironically there is some full contact chi sau rather than full blown chun.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QdeEN3UMRao

Which I am trying to rustle up.

On the way I found this. Does this one look rehersed to you?
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kD47Ckag354
Not a reflection on anything just looked weird.

Otherwise there is sanda but I don't know how close to chun that actually is.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tshbXuN93VM

By the way raised platform and takedowns?

And finally this one looks more competitive.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qvUP76MbtJE
 

cwk

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The first one had no head contact by the looks of it and it started from a rolling hands position but apart from that it was ok contact wise.
The second one was scripted just look at the leg kicks.
I love sanda but it's not wing chun. Nothing wrong with cross training it to gain skills though.
The last one was only light sparring but probably the best platform for developing skills. I spar with the thai fighters at my muay thai gym not that much harder than this sometimes. Obviously we go harder quite often too but you really learn a lot more from going at a steady pace.
I think some wing chun clubs start their students sparring too hard to start with and wear way too much protective gear.
I think the way forward is; take off the gloves or put some mma gloves on, a cup, a gum shield, a bit of mutual respect and just start off light with ZERO ego and help each other build skills.
crap, I think we've gone off topic a little.Sorry Mook.
Thanks for the clips.
 
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