hey, i'm a kenpo student at the moment, and am interested in taking wtf tkd on the side, mostly to improve kicking, and to mingle with more people close to my age. I'm wondering what the major differences are in the techniques and stances?
thinking of tkd
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We have about 45 kicking techniques, half or more are hopping or jumping. Alot of spinning too. Alot of cardiovascular workout. Alot of repetition too to build muscle. The stances are perhaps the same. We do a lower front stance-long with over a shoulder and a half apart-only for forms. Some short-walking stance in forms. Our fighting stance is different than those.
We also have backstance, also not used in fighting, and a few others for forms. We also require breaking for every test-but that is the fun part. Our school also requires tournaments-12 to test for BB. But that is fun too. Also sparring for tests, ours are medium contact but we wear full gear and headgear with cage for the face. Probably it all depends on the school but gives you something to ask about. TW
We also have backstance, also not used in fighting, and a few others for forms. We also require breaking for every test-but that is the fun part. Our school also requires tournaments-12 to test for BB. But that is fun too. Also sparring for tests, ours are medium contact but we wear full gear and headgear with cage for the face. Probably it all depends on the school but gives you something to ask about. TW
One difference I noticed between TKD and the kenpo I studied is TKD forms (poomse, patterns) are done in a rhythmic fashion - e.g. if you have a room full of TKD students doing the same form at the same time, each and every move will be done at the same time in cadence.
The kenpo I studied (Sam Pai Kenpo) allowed you to feel your form and find your rhythm in the form, as does the Korean martial art I study now.
There are WAY fewer techniques in Tae Kwon Do than Kenpo - Sam Pai Kenpo at the time I studied it required 30-some techniques for orange / one-tip white rank. Michael Person's system required more than that when I left that Kenpo system.
Korean kicking, as TW says, is much more complicated - there is a lot of emphasis on kicking, high kicks, spinning kicks, jumping spinning kicks, upside-down kicks (in some styles), jumping kicks. It's a bit more militaristic than Kenpo, in my experience.
Seig, the admin here, was in TKD for a considerable time and now has studied and teaches Kenpo for a considerable time, so he might be a good one to ask for more details.
The kenpo I studied (Sam Pai Kenpo) allowed you to feel your form and find your rhythm in the form, as does the Korean martial art I study now.
There are WAY fewer techniques in Tae Kwon Do than Kenpo - Sam Pai Kenpo at the time I studied it required 30-some techniques for orange / one-tip white rank. Michael Person's system required more than that when I left that Kenpo system.
Korean kicking, as TW says, is much more complicated - there is a lot of emphasis on kicking, high kicks, spinning kicks, jumping spinning kicks, upside-down kicks (in some styles), jumping kicks. It's a bit more militaristic than Kenpo, in my experience.
Seig, the admin here, was in TKD for a considerable time and now has studied and teaches Kenpo for a considerable time, so he might be a good one to ask for more details.
MichiganTKD
Master Black Belt
There are many differences between WTF Tae Kwon Do and Kenpo:
1. Higher emphasis on free fighting in WTF Tae kwon Do.
2. White uniform with a black V-neck collar in WTF as opposed to black uniforms.
3. WTF forms tend to be focused on basic techniques (front kick, side kick, punching, basic blocking, basic hand techniques etc) rather than flowery or fancy techniques.
4. WTF does not use flowery names to describe techniques. Double fist is double fist, not "Alternating Maces" or anything like that. Pretty straightward.
5. WTF Tae Kwon Do uses body padding (hogu) and headgear for protection rather than hand and foot pads.
But each school will reflect its Instructor, who reflects his preferences and the way he was taught. Some instructors will emphasize different aspects of Tae Kwon Do over others. A sport-style WTF school will do a lot of free fighting and drills. A more traditional school will still free fight, but also focus on developing power, manners/etiquette, and self defense. So the above is just a general rule, not carved in stone.
1. Higher emphasis on free fighting in WTF Tae kwon Do.
2. White uniform with a black V-neck collar in WTF as opposed to black uniforms.
3. WTF forms tend to be focused on basic techniques (front kick, side kick, punching, basic blocking, basic hand techniques etc) rather than flowery or fancy techniques.
4. WTF does not use flowery names to describe techniques. Double fist is double fist, not "Alternating Maces" or anything like that. Pretty straightward.
5. WTF Tae Kwon Do uses body padding (hogu) and headgear for protection rather than hand and foot pads.
But each school will reflect its Instructor, who reflects his preferences and the way he was taught. Some instructors will emphasize different aspects of Tae Kwon Do over others. A sport-style WTF school will do a lot of free fighting and drills. A more traditional school will still free fight, but also focus on developing power, manners/etiquette, and self defense. So the above is just a general rule, not carved in stone.
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shesulsa said:
Not really true unless they are doing team form. Everyone has a different leg length, different capability. At the testing today, three black belts were completely different in style and tempo.
TKD has 45+ techniques for foot and alot more for hand, elbow, knee, head, chin, plus locks, sweeps, falls which I didn't count. Then there are combinations of any of the above, call it a different technique-no we don't do that. We have 30 tested self defense techniques in addition which are combinations. But we are taught alot more than that in self defense technique more along the Hapkido line. But its not about numbers but about what you learn.
TKD protocal includes bowing to instructors and at the door, not leaving without permission, not talking, chewing gum, answering with yes, sir; yes ma'am; must try, no is seldom heard unless a medical reason. We ask permission to be excused from pushups because of a shoulder injury. We line up in order of rank, with the highest rank starting class bow ins and outs. Other rules like not straightening uniform-turn away from flag and black belts to do so. Kind of like a dictatorship-instructor commands, student follows. We have white, red, blue and black uniforms. TW
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so, besides being alot more sport oriented, and all, it won't be completly different in base techniques. (just don't want to bring a completly differetn system into a class)
thanks for the info!
Mj_Lover
thanks for the info!
Mj_Lover
FearlessFreep
Senior Master
No, there is a sport-application or sport-implementation of TKD that many schools and many people focus on, but the art itslef is not inherently more sport-oriented. It really depends on the focus of your instructor
Remember TKD schools vary. One instructor could follow what Tigerwoman said while others don't. I started in TKD but then moved. I came from a school very similar to TW's except ITF. I was surprised at the differences in WTF schools. Some were militaristic, some tourney oriented, some very informal. Depending on where you live, there may be a lot of choices. If you are lucky to have choices, hit some free classes. Find an instructor who will work with you on the skills you want to improve and won't be offended that you are also taking another art.
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I don't think we are a LOT more sport oriented. Depends on the school.
Our kicks are snapped, other schools might do wheel kicks or chamber kicks or thrust kicks. A few differences. Just look at some of threads where some of the technique are discussed. I would think it might be hard to not bring some of either school into Kenpo or TKD. But, I know for sure, our instructor only allows his way, inside his school. TW
Our kicks are snapped, other schools might do wheel kicks or chamber kicks or thrust kicks. A few differences. Just look at some of threads where some of the technique are discussed. I would think it might be hard to not bring some of either school into Kenpo or TKD. But, I know for sure, our instructor only allows his way, inside his school. TW
How many total techniques would you say you learned from white to 1st dan, TW?TigerWoman said:
TX_BB
Purple Belt
Sorry, Tiger Woman the WTF is all about the sport. That's why when you go to their web page you see all the sections on rules, IOC anti-doping statues and stuff like that.
The Kukkikwon is the body that sets the cirriculum and sets the standards for the art. I know my Black belt Certificates are old but they bear the Kukkiwon symbols not the WTF.
The Kukkikwon is the body that sets the cirriculum and sets the standards for the art. I know my Black belt Certificates are old but they bear the Kukkiwon symbols not the WTF.
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shesulsa said:
I never bothered to add it all up. I just added up foot/ one move techniques once. Hand, elbow,knee etc. add that in. Then if you want to get into combinations like Kenpo, it could be endless. I think I recall my instructor telling me that once.
I guess that's why we don't memorize rote techniques because in free fighting, new combinations have come up. TW
Yes WTF is sport base but some schools say wtf but actually never do WTF as you TXBB. WTF is fine if you are looking for sport competition, but remember the Art of TKD goes much deeper than the sport.
- Thread Starter
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well, the club i'm looking at, bluewater tkd, seems to be very sport oriented, which is good, as i like competing. I'm gonna call and see if i can drop in for a class, from what i hear, alot of the curousies(sp??) and such are similar to my current club. can't wait to hit the mat!
thanks for all the great responses
thanks for all the great responses
FearlessFreep
Senior Master
I think one thing that should be said is that there is nothing wrong with sport if sports is what you want.
I mean, who spends much time arguing or discussion the relative merits of soccer vs baseball for self-defense?
I didn't initially get my kids into TKD for self-defense. I really got them into it because I wanted them to have an activity the would get and keep them in shape, and trying to work various little league team schedules for as many kids as I have was going to be a nightmare, so I just wanted something them could all participate in together and TKD was recommened by a friend because her husband and son were in the same class we're in now. Since our instructor happens to focus on self-defense/fighting aspects of TKD over sport-sparring, that's the way we've gone.
I pray I never have to use any of my training and practice to really protect my safety or anyone I know, and quite honestly, I don't really think most of us, or most people taking TKD or any MA class, are ever really going to be in that situation. It's nice to have and good to know my kids are better protected, though.
Anyway, there sometimes seems to be a derisiveness and defensiveness, especially in regards to TKD. A kinda of a "you're not real, it's just a sport", 'nu uh! it's real!" which I sorta think is a bit silly. Sword fighting has a sport application called fencing, gun fighting has a sport application in various shooting competitions, bows and arrows have archery, and I'm not even going to get into javelins and discus throwing, and you don't really see many people even worrying if their sports are good for self-defense or 'street fighting'. TKD just happens to have fostered a sport environment as well, which is really cool for anyone who wants to do sports in a MA type of encounter.
I think those with a non-sporting interest in MA should not look down on those who just want to do it for sport. After all, most people who do it for sport will have more chances to actually apply it than those that don't. I think those who just do it for sport need not be defensive cause, hey, it's a cool sport. Those who are in TKD itself but not into the sport-sparring should still be proud that TKD has fostered a fun and popular activity.
Sorry..just beenon my mind recently..
I mean, who spends much time arguing or discussion the relative merits of soccer vs baseball for self-defense?
I didn't initially get my kids into TKD for self-defense. I really got them into it because I wanted them to have an activity the would get and keep them in shape, and trying to work various little league team schedules for as many kids as I have was going to be a nightmare, so I just wanted something them could all participate in together and TKD was recommened by a friend because her husband and son were in the same class we're in now. Since our instructor happens to focus on self-defense/fighting aspects of TKD over sport-sparring, that's the way we've gone.
I pray I never have to use any of my training and practice to really protect my safety or anyone I know, and quite honestly, I don't really think most of us, or most people taking TKD or any MA class, are ever really going to be in that situation. It's nice to have and good to know my kids are better protected, though.
Anyway, there sometimes seems to be a derisiveness and defensiveness, especially in regards to TKD. A kinda of a "you're not real, it's just a sport", 'nu uh! it's real!" which I sorta think is a bit silly. Sword fighting has a sport application called fencing, gun fighting has a sport application in various shooting competitions, bows and arrows have archery, and I'm not even going to get into javelins and discus throwing, and you don't really see many people even worrying if their sports are good for self-defense or 'street fighting'. TKD just happens to have fostered a sport environment as well, which is really cool for anyone who wants to do sports in a MA type of encounter.
I think those with a non-sporting interest in MA should not look down on those who just want to do it for sport. After all, most people who do it for sport will have more chances to actually apply it than those that don't. I think those who just do it for sport need not be defensive cause, hey, it's a cool sport. Those who are in TKD itself but not into the sport-sparring should still be proud that TKD has fostered a fun and popular activity.
Sorry..just beenon my mind recently..
Miles
Senior Master
Congratulations!
Are you in Sarnia? There will be a tournament in SE Michigan on 5/7. I will post details soon.
Miles
Are you in Sarnia? There will be a tournament in SE Michigan on 5/7. I will post details soon.
Miles
