Things that make me go hmm... Kubudo

[Xue Sheng]

I like traditional Weapons and I have trained a few in CMA but none outside of CMA.

I recently found a school, in the same town I live in, that teachers Kubudo and you do not need to be one of their karate students to take the class. The teach bo, sai, tonfa, kama, tekko and Iaijutsu.

During my injury induced downtime I have discovered a few MA school that are rather interesting in my area that do not seem to advertise much. That in CMA generally means it is a good school, not so sure what that means in a Karate/Kubudo school

I’m not sure if I am going to do anything about this, I have other things I want to check out first, but can anyone tell me what to look for in a place that teaches Kubudo

 

[colemcm]

What's the name of the Kobudo style? Maybe someone has some insight into that particular style and can tell you more about what to expect.

I'm just here for the show. Helpful, huh?

 

[harlan]

School, location, style of kobudo? Always looking for good schools to recommend/pass on!

 

[Xue Sheng]

Don't know the style I know the schools root comes form Mas Oyama but it is about 3 removed

 

[Chris Parker]

I like traditional Weapons and I have trained a few in CMA but none outside of CMA.

I recently found a school, in the same town I live in, that teachers Kubudo and you do not need to be one of their karate students to take the class. The teach bo, sai, tonfa, kama, tekko and Iaijutsu.

During my injury induced downtime I have discovered a few MA school that are rather interesting in my area that do not seem to advertise much. That in CMA generally means it is a good school, not so sure what that means in a Karate/Kubudo school

I’m not sure if I am going to do anything about this, I have other things I want to check out first, but can anyone tell me what to look for in a place that teaches Kubudo

Lineage.

Kobudo (Ryukyu/Okinawan) is basically the usage of weapons, as you know, with there being a few recognised historical systems, such as Matsubayashi Ryu and Yamanni Ryu. Different systems will have different emphasis', such as Yamanni Ryu's emphasis/focus on Bo, Matsuyabashi Ryu having a wider range etc, others teaching more "exotic", or rare weapons, such as Eku (oar). For the record, I've never seen Iai listed as part of a Kobudo curriculum… I'd seriously be wanting to know where that comes from…

To be honest, though, the idea of "no advertising equals good" isn't really something I'd rely on… no advertising just means no advertising… there are very good and very bad across the spectrum in all ranges.

Don't know the style I know the schools root comes form Mas Oyama but it is about 3 removed

From memory, Mas Oyama didn't really do much in the way of Kobudo, the biggest connection I can currently find is with an Australian group, who have sought out instruction (separate to Kyokushin Karate, Oyama's system) in Kobudo. Without more information, we really can't give much more of an idea… with your location listed as "who wants to know", it's a little hard to narrow down the group you're looking at…

The thing with Kobudo is that, in a number of cases, it's a karate instructor who has been taught a bit of this, and a bit of that, and put together some ideas, maybe with one or two actual kata (but more likely some they've created themselves), and taught as such. This is why lineage is important… otherwise, you really can't be sure what you'll be getting.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Thanks Chris, I am a fish out of water on the non-Chinese things

To be honest, though, the idea of "no advertising equals good" isn't really something I'd rely on… no advertising just means no advertising… there

Tends to make a big difference in CMA. not that advertising means bad but in most cases that real old school traditional guys that really know their stuff do not advertise at all. But I am talking CMA and by no means do I intend to give anyone the impression that I feel that applies to any styles outside of CMA

 

[TimoS]

Matsubayashi Ryu

Were you thinking about Matayoshi kobudo, because to my knowledge Matsubayashi ryu is just karate, at least mainly. They might have some weapons curriculum but mostly empty hand stuff.
Other than this minor detail I agree with you. The two largest Okinawan kobudo lineages are Matayoshi and Taira Shinken's line (they aren't mutually exclusive, from memory Matayoshi Shinpo and Taira Shinken taught each other some kata).

 

[Chris Parker]

Ah, dammit…

Yep, good catch, Timo! Thanks!

 

[MattofSilat]

Lineage.

Kobudo (Ryukyu/Okinawan) is basically the usage of weapons, as you know, with there being a few recognised historical systems, such as Matsubayashi Ryu and Yamanni Ryu. Different systems will have different emphasis', such as Yamanni Ryu's emphasis/focus on Bo, Matsuyabashi Ryu having a wider range etc, others teaching more "exotic", or rare weapons, such as Eku (oar). For the record, I've never seen Iai listed as part of a Kobudo curriculum… I'd seriously be wanting to know where that comes from…

To be honest, though, the idea of "no advertising equals good" isn't really something I'd rely on… no advertising just means no advertising… there are very good and very bad across the spectrum in all ranges.



From memory, Mas Oyama didn't really do much in the way of Kobudo, the biggest connection I can currently find is with an Australian group, who have sought out instruction (separate to Kyokushin Karate, Oyama's system) in Kobudo. Without more information, we really can't give much more of an idea… with your location listed as "who wants to know", it's a little hard to narrow down the group you're looking at…

The thing with Kobudo is that, in a number of cases, it's a karate instructor who has been taught a bit of this, and a bit of that, and put together some ideas, maybe with one or two actual kata (but more likely some they've created themselves), and taught as such. This is why lineage is important… otherwise, you really can't be sure what you'll be getting.

I suppose you could be right on the advertising front. The only thing is, schools that advertise a lot are often considered to be financially driven, where as the really good teachers teach because they want to pass on their knowledge. There will obviously be some that want to pass on their knowledge and earn a ton of dosh, but a lot of the best teachers wouldn't think that way. That's my take on it.

 

[Chris Parker]

I suppose you could be right on the advertising front. The only thing is, schools that advertise a lot are often considered to be financially driven, where as the really good teachers teach because they want to pass on their knowledge. There will obviously be some that want to pass on their knowledge and earn a ton of dosh, but a lot of the best teachers wouldn't think that way. That's my take on it.

Hmm.

Hi Matt,

Look, I don't want to come down particularly heavy on you here, but please bear in mind that you're incredibly new to martial arts, and have little exposure other than areas such as these forums… so, while some advertising schools are financially driven, that doesn't mean that the teachers there are not as good, or not teaching because of a desire to pass on their knowledge. I get the desire to see things as idealised, but reality is often quite different… and your comment about 'the best teachers wouldn't think that way", although given as "your take on it", is actually fairly baseless.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hmm.

Hi Matt,

Look, I don't want to come down particularly heavy on you here, but please bear in mind that you're incredibly new to martial arts, and have little exposure other than areas such as these forums… so, while some advertising schools are financially driven, that doesn't mean that the teachers there are not as good, or not teaching because of a desire to pass on their knowledge. I get the desire to see things as idealised, but reality is often quite different… and your comment about 'the best teachers wouldn't think that way", although given as "your take on it", is actually fairly baseless.

Like I said, can't talk for other MAs outside of CMA, but that is not being Idealistic in CMA, that is pretty much the reality if you are dealing with old school guys. Its cultural based on a history of dynastic rule with a cultural revolution thrown in. The old saying "the nail that stands up gets pounded down" is part of that type of thinking.

But that does not mean a CMA school that advertises is bad, that would depend on what they advertise and how.

 

[Chris Parker]

Sure… but we're not talking about CMA here, Xue… and the reality is that good and bad can run the gamut across advertised and non-advertised schools.

I'll put it this way… I am involved in a range of groups… some advertise, some don't… the quality isn't really that different between them. The emphasis and structure is, but not the quality.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Sure… but we're not talking about CMA here, Xue… and the reality is that good and bad can run the gamut across advertised and non-advertised schools.

I'll put it this way… I am involved in a range of groups… some advertise, some don't… the quality isn't really that different between them. The emphasis and structure is, but not the quality.

Yeah, I think I pretty much said that as well as made myself clear that I am only talking CMA not styles outside of that. And for the record I too have been involved with multiple groups over the last 40 years, not all CMA, and some advertise some don't.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I like traditional Weapons and I have trained a few in CMA but none outside of CMA.

I recently found a school, in the same town I live in, that teachers Kubudo and you do not need to be one of their karate students to take the class. The teach bo, sai, tonfa, kama, tekko and Iaijutsu.

During my injury induced downtime I have discovered a few MA school that are rather interesting in my area that do not seem to advertise much. That in CMA generally means it is a good school, not so sure what that means in a Karate/Kubudo school

I’m not sure if I am going to do anything about this, I have other things I want to check out first, but can anyone tell me what to look for in a place that teaches Kubudo

In my system, it appears that Kobudo has become very popular of late. We have but three weapons in our style; bo, sai, and tuifa (tonfa). Our style incorporates the weapons katas created by the founder, who learned from Taira Shinken. However, of late, it appears that lots of well-known people in my style are getting involved in various kobudo studies.

The Ryukyute Kobujutsu Hozon Budo Kyokai, founded and run by Peter Carbone Sensei is near me and I have been to one of his mini seminars. It appears to me that there is an emphasis on weapons I am unfamiliar with, such as tanbo. However, from all accounts, the training is quite authentically Okinawan and very good indeed.

Ryukyu Kobudo is being taught at various dojos, I believe, and by some seriously well-regarded Okinawan-style karate instructors who also hold rank in Kobudo.

Hiroshi Akamine Kaicho

Students from my style who train with the above Kobudo, however, are considered students of that style as well, with its own belt system and so on. It's not part of my style, but is increasingly (as far as I can tell) being taught as an optional adjunct.

Personally, I am not that much into the various weapons systems. I see their validity and use; they are quite amazing and I see how they can improve my empty-handed techniques as well. They just don't thrill me. Perhaps that will change in time. At the moment, I practice with bo and sai and have learned the basics of a few katas; I am proficient in none of them and continue to practice.

 

[Xue Sheng]

In my system, it appears that Kobudo has become very popular of late. We have but three weapons in our style; bo, sai, and tuifa (tonfa). Our style incorporates the weapons katas created by the founder, who learned from Taira Shinken. However, of late, it appears that lots of well-known people in my style are getting involved in various kobudo studies.

The Ryukyute Kobujutsu Hozon Budo Kyokai, founded and run by Peter Carbone Sensei is near me and I have been to one of his mini seminars. It appears to me that there is an emphasis on weapons I am unfamiliar with, such as tanbo. However, from all accounts, the training is quite authentically Okinawan and very good indeed.

Ryukyu Kobudo is being taught at various dojos, I believe, and by some seriously well-regarded Okinawan-style karate instructors who also hold rank in Kobudo.

Hiroshi Akamine Kaicho

Students from my style who train with the above Kobudo, however, are considered students of that style as well, with its own belt system and so on. It's not part of my style, but is increasingly (as far as I can tell) being taught as an optional adjunct.

Personally, I am not that much into the various weapons systems. I see their validity and use; they are quite amazing and I see how they can improve my empty-handed techniques as well. They just don't thrill me. Perhaps that will change in time. At the moment, I practice with bo and sai and have learned the basics of a few katas; I am proficient in none of them and continue to practice.

Thanks Bill

To be totally honest I am more interested in the Bo, Sai and possibly Tonfa than anything else

 

[Xue Sheng]

After looking a little more at the school I think I am in error about one thing in my description. I now believe Iaijutsu is offered separately

 

[Bill Mattocks]

After looking a little more at the school I think I am in error about one thing in my description. I now believe Iaijutsu is offered separately

That makes sense. I would expect weapons like nunchaku, bo, eku (oar), sai, tonfa, and even tekko and tichu and such things. Sword is something else entirely, to the best of my knowledge.

 

[Chris Parker]

After looking a little more at the school I think I am in error about one thing in my description. I now believe Iaijutsu is offered separately

More than making sense, I'd be shocked if this is not the case (and rather suspicious as to what they were presenting as Iai&#8230. As it stands, the question now becomes "what Iai?"… especially if they're classing it as "Iaijutsu", rather than Iaido. That automatically removes the idea of Seitei Iai ("standard" Iai, for want of a better description), and implies a form of Koryu Iai… if that's the case, the Ryu-ha name should be very easy to discover, which can give some indication as to the possibilities/likelihood of quality of the rest of the offering.

Do you remember hearing a name for the Iai?

 

[Xue Sheng]

More than making sense, I'd be shocked if this is not the case (and rather suspicious as to what they were presenting as Iai&#8230. As it stands, the question now becomes "what Iai?"… especially if they're classing it as "Iaijutsu", rather than Iaido. That automatically removes the idea of Seitei Iai ("standard" Iai, for want of a better description), and implies a form of Koryu Iai… if that's the case, the Ryu-ha name should be very easy to discover, which can give some indication as to the possibilities/likelihood of quality of the rest of the offering.

Do you remember hearing a name for the Iai?

All I can tell you is they market as Iaijutsu

 

[Chris Parker]

Hmm… no website to peruse?