Things that make me go hmm... Kubudo
- Thread starter Xue Sheng
- Start date
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Space cleared, Xue.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Cool, got the PM, Xue. No space to send a reply, so I'll put it here.
There's no indication of where their Kobudo comes from (and a bunch of issues on the page itself, honestly), so I'd be a little cautious on that side… as far as the Iai, one of the instructors is apparently ranked Shodan in Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu Iaijutsu (most organisations call it Iaido these days, but it's kinda neither here nor there)… not that high up, really, likely only a few years training themselves. If you were interested in the Iai side of things, I'd look to other, Iai-centric dojo… as far as the Kobudo, it didn't exactly fill me with confidence…
One of the sad things with karate schools is that they often integrate weapons without actually having a base in them… which could easily be the case here (I saw nothing to say that it actually came from anywhere specific… and, as I said at the beginning, lineage is the first thing to check out). Overall, it could be interesting, fun, great, or anything… but there's not much that would get me there.
There's no indication of where their Kobudo comes from (and a bunch of issues on the page itself, honestly), so I'd be a little cautious on that side… as far as the Iai, one of the instructors is apparently ranked Shodan in Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu Iaijutsu (most organisations call it Iaido these days, but it's kinda neither here nor there)… not that high up, really, likely only a few years training themselves. If you were interested in the Iai side of things, I'd look to other, Iai-centric dojo… as far as the Kobudo, it didn't exactly fill me with confidence…
One of the sad things with karate schools is that they often integrate weapons without actually having a base in them… which could easily be the case here (I saw nothing to say that it actually came from anywhere specific… and, as I said at the beginning, lineage is the first thing to check out). Overall, it could be interesting, fun, great, or anything… but there's not much that would get me there.
OP
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
- Thread Starter
- #24
Thanks Chris.
The longer I look at it and the longer I think about it the more concerns I have. I would love to learn the sai, don't know why, it just always appealed to me, but the more I look the more I wonder, throw in a 3 month contract and I get more concerned and with your assessment it is now likely I will not go there.
much appreciated
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Okay… I decided to do what I do, and keep looking into it… and I have some good news, and some bad news. Mainly bad news. It's almost all bad news. Ready? Remember, this is mainly bad news…
I found their Facebook page. And, on that page, they have a number of videos… including one on the Iaijutsu, and one on their Kobudo. The good news is that what they do is all seemingly legit… the Iai is Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu Iaijutsu, with Seitei Iaido as a fundamental to begin with (some dojo do that, some don't… neither here nor there… my dojo for Muso Shinden Ryu, for example, have two rules… you can either wait to learn MSR after you get your Shodan in Seitei, or you can not have any intention of doing Seitei at all… I'm in the latter camp…
, and the Kobudo kata are all fairly "proper" (I didn't recognise them, but they weren't anything like XMA, thankfully). They have hosted at least one seminar with Carl Long (MJER), which is also good. Okay, that's the good news...
The bad news is the content of the video, sadly.
We'll start with the Iai… it was announced that the instructor has been training for 7 years at the time of the video, having recently been awarded Shodan (that's a hell of a long time…, and having just returned from a competition in Japan (note: MJER doesn't do competition… they're the providence of Seitei Iai), where the US group got an award for progress (they applauded… I read it as a "well done, you little scrappers… here's something so you don't feel too bad about not winning anything" award). Hmm. They then showed a range of kata from the Omori Ryu (the first level of MJER and MSR), as well as a few Seitei kata… and… well… it was bad. The instructors O Chiburi was sloppy, uncontrolled, badly placed, and rather terrible overall. The cuts were badly placed, there was no connection between the sword and the person, and more. Not good. Then they showed a few "applications"… again, just a bad demo. One movement started with a very powerless and ineffective "block", followed by a control and thrust… which was off target by, well, a foot and a half. So the practitioner moved their sword to the "right" position… bad, bad, bad. The demo finished with the instructor showing tameshigiri (test cutting against a rolled mat)… which was supposed to be "rokudan kiri" (six level cut). It didn't go well… the first cut didn't so much cut, as bend the target over… the second bent it more. The instructor never actually fixed the target in-between the cuts, so the next one lifted it completely off the stand… After replacing it, the next two cuts continued to go badly, with the stand being knocked completely over. It ended with a yoko ichimonji giri (horizontal cut), which was over-done, overly muscled, lucky to stay controlled, and DIRECTLY IN LINE WITH THE PEOPLE WATCHING! It might be noted that, throughout the entire cutting demo, the person filming was in direct line as well… so, what we have here is someone who can't cut, has very poor form for basic kata, and has absolutely no understanding of the basic safety concerns of performing with a live blade. Bad, and dangerous.
Right, onto the Kobudo. There were four demos here… first up was two young lads (late teens? early 20's?) performing a twin kama kata (one kama in each hand). It was okay… some gripping issues, some problems with body management, and a few other things… but overall, it was underwhelming but not terrible. Next up was the instructor for the Kobudo, showing Eku (oar)… some very poorly demonstrated kihon (fundamentals), poor placement of the weapon, very odd footwork and body usage, all leading up to a weak application of the weapon. This was then followed by bo (staff)… which followed the same pattern as the eku… with even more odd footwork (that I haven't seen in any Ryukyu methodology before). Some of the spinning methods were a little off as well… but it wasn't the worst of the lot. That was the last one.
The last demo was "Bo and Sai Kumite"… basically a relatively "free form" expression of the weapons against each other. Fortunately, it was a rehearsed bit (they were using metal sai, and even an accidental hit across the fingers with a hard-wood bo can break a finger quite easily)… however, the benefit (other than safety) of a rehearsed routine is that it can be done powerfully, fluidly, and well. None of that was present here. It was an awkward back and forth (oh, you hit my sai, I'll drop it now… then awkwardly bend over to pick it up while you wait… oh good, my turn to win!), leading to a number of fluffed techniques, especially the end hold and control. Really not a good expression of the way the weapons are used.
So, to sum up… it's legit… but it's not good. At all. Not something I'd recommend.
And I was all prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt, too…
I found their Facebook page. And, on that page, they have a number of videos… including one on the Iaijutsu, and one on their Kobudo. The good news is that what they do is all seemingly legit… the Iai is Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu Iaijutsu, with Seitei Iaido as a fundamental to begin with (some dojo do that, some don't… neither here nor there… my dojo for Muso Shinden Ryu, for example, have two rules… you can either wait to learn MSR after you get your Shodan in Seitei, or you can not have any intention of doing Seitei at all… I'm in the latter camp…
, and the Kobudo kata are all fairly "proper" (I didn't recognise them, but they weren't anything like XMA, thankfully). They have hosted at least one seminar with Carl Long (MJER), which is also good. Okay, that's the good news...The bad news is the content of the video, sadly.
We'll start with the Iai… it was announced that the instructor has been training for 7 years at the time of the video, having recently been awarded Shodan (that's a hell of a long time…
, and having just returned from a competition in Japan (note: MJER doesn't do competition… they're the providence of Seitei Iai), where the US group got an award for progress (they applauded… I read it as a "well done, you little scrappers… here's something so you don't feel too bad about not winning anything" award). Hmm. They then showed a range of kata from the Omori Ryu (the first level of MJER and MSR), as well as a few Seitei kata… and… well… it was bad. The instructors O Chiburi was sloppy, uncontrolled, badly placed, and rather terrible overall. The cuts were badly placed, there was no connection between the sword and the person, and more. Not good. Then they showed a few "applications"… again, just a bad demo. One movement started with a very powerless and ineffective "block", followed by a control and thrust… which was off target by, well, a foot and a half. So the practitioner moved their sword to the "right" position… bad, bad, bad. The demo finished with the instructor showing tameshigiri (test cutting against a rolled mat)… which was supposed to be "rokudan kiri" (six level cut). It didn't go well… the first cut didn't so much cut, as bend the target over… the second bent it more. The instructor never actually fixed the target in-between the cuts, so the next one lifted it completely off the stand… After replacing it, the next two cuts continued to go badly, with the stand being knocked completely over. It ended with a yoko ichimonji giri (horizontal cut), which was over-done, overly muscled, lucky to stay controlled, and DIRECTLY IN LINE WITH THE PEOPLE WATCHING! It might be noted that, throughout the entire cutting demo, the person filming was in direct line as well… so, what we have here is someone who can't cut, has very poor form for basic kata, and has absolutely no understanding of the basic safety concerns of performing with a live blade. Bad, and dangerous.Right, onto the Kobudo. There were four demos here… first up was two young lads (late teens? early 20's?) performing a twin kama kata (one kama in each hand). It was okay… some gripping issues, some problems with body management, and a few other things… but overall, it was underwhelming but not terrible. Next up was the instructor for the Kobudo, showing Eku (oar)… some very poorly demonstrated kihon (fundamentals), poor placement of the weapon, very odd footwork and body usage, all leading up to a weak application of the weapon. This was then followed by bo (staff)… which followed the same pattern as the eku… with even more odd footwork (that I haven't seen in any Ryukyu methodology before). Some of the spinning methods were a little off as well… but it wasn't the worst of the lot. That was the last one.
The last demo was "Bo and Sai Kumite"… basically a relatively "free form" expression of the weapons against each other. Fortunately, it was a rehearsed bit (they were using metal sai, and even an accidental hit across the fingers with a hard-wood bo can break a finger quite easily)… however, the benefit (other than safety) of a rehearsed routine is that it can be done powerfully, fluidly, and well. None of that was present here. It was an awkward back and forth (oh, you hit my sai, I'll drop it now… then awkwardly bend over to pick it up while you wait… oh good, my turn to win!), leading to a number of fluffed techniques, especially the end hold and control. Really not a good expression of the way the weapons are used.
So, to sum up… it's legit… but it's not good. At all. Not something I'd recommend.
And I was all prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt, too…
