Things that are ridiculous in Martial Arts

[Bruce7]

From Tiger Rock Newsletter
Big Congratulations to
Miss Bissler
on receiving official rank promotion to 5th Degree Black Belts at the World Championships in Orlando.

Tiger Rock is giving a 5th Degree Black Belt to an 18 year old .
If she were WTF or WTI she would be lucky to be a !st dan black belt given her skill level.
My definition of ridiculous.

 

[jobo]

From Tiger Rock Newsletter
Big Congratulations to
Miss Bissler
on receiving official rank promotion to 5th Degree Black Belts at the World Championships in Orlando.

Tiger Rock is giving a 5th Degree Black Belt to an 18 year old .
If she were WTF or WTI she would be lucky to be a !st dan black belt given her skill level.
My definition of ridiculous.

the whole black belt thing is ridiculous,i, your going to tie black belt to actual ability, then they should be fought for and people should have them removed if their ability drops through age or lack of commitment. when you have geriatrics walking about with high grades then a fit 18 yo doesn't seem that out of character

 

[skribs]

the whole black belt thing is ridiculous,i, your going to tie black belt to actual ability, then they should be fought for and people should have them removed if their ability drops through age or lack of commitment. when you have geriatrics walking about with high grades then a fit 18 yo doesn't seem that out of character

In TKD, people don't usually compete at higher belt levels. At that point they're usually coaches and mentors. They may have lost some speed and flexibility over time, but their knowledge has only increased, knowledge which they can pass down to future generations.

One of my Dad's favorite quotes is "old age and treachery beats youth and enthusiasm".

 

[jobo]

In TKD, people don't usually compete at higher belt levels. At that point they're usually coaches and mentors. They may have lost some speed and flexibility over time, but their knowledge has only increased, knowledge which they can pass down to future generations.

One of my Dad's favorite quotes is "old age and treachery beats youth and enthusiasm".

there sa marked difference between knowledge and ability, my knowledge of soccer is immense, my abilities are declining with age. I don't turn up at soccer practise wearing my player of the season medle from 1978, coz they would laugh at the silly old man living on past glories

but the op point was that the young lady in question was lacking ability, ability in sport is measured by performance not knowledge, if your saying that an individual is undeserving coz they lack ability then the same can equally be said for any other person of any age or experience who is of a similar level of demonstrable ability

if your saying actual ability doesn't matter, then that applies equally to her

 

[Bruce7]

An 18 year old 5th dan makes a mockery of the whole belt system. Is she going to be a grandmaster before she is 30, come on.

 

[jobo]

An 18 year old 5th dan makes a mockery of the whole belt system. Is she going to be a grandmaster before she is 30, come on.

but the system is already a mockery

 

[wab25]

One of the ridiculous things I see in martial arts, is people getting all upset and concerned about what another organization and or school does with the things that hold their gis closed. If some other organization wants to have one of their people wear a white, red, purple, neon blue, camo, tan, transparent belt... so what? That does not effect me or my school or my training at all. If that other school wants a certain number of stripes or pins or patches or things on one side and not the other... again, that makes no difference to me or my school.

That other school can do what it wants. That school will be judged by what it does and it has to live with the representation it makes... or they go out of business. No matter how grand, how ethical, how traditional your school does it... it will not be impacted by the other school at all. And, both your school and their school will be judged by folks like jobo, who laughs at the silly colors and stripes either way.

Teddy Atlas and Freddy Roach don't show up to the gym wearing belts, or badges... You can judge their skill as boxers by their records. You can judge their skill as trainers by their fighters. Again, that doesn't change how my school views belts and stripes and patches and such.

So, they want to give that gal a 5th degree black belt and make her a grand master at age 21.... Good for her. Good for them. Would I go to train with her? Or attend a seminar she taught? I'd have to see her for myself, to judge whether I want to take that time. Her belt and number of stripes have little to do with whether I go learn from her.

When I go to seminars, where there are multiple classes being taught. I don't go to the class with the highest ranked instructor. I go to the class that is teaching the thing I want to work on... or I go to the class taught by the person I think I can get the most from... Many times, the most valuable things I pick up, are from some of the lowest ranked instructors there.

 

[Buka]

One of the ridiculous things I see in martial arts, is people getting all upset and concerned about what another organization and or school does with the things that hold their gis closed. If some other organization wants to have one of their people wear a white, red, purple, neon blue, camo, tan, transparent belt... so what? That does not effect me or my school or my training at all. If that other school wants a certain number of stripes or pins or patches or things on one side and not the other... again, that makes no difference to me or my school.

That other school can do what it wants. That school will be judged by what it does and it has to live with the representation it makes... or they go out of business. No matter how grand, how ethical, how traditional your school does it... it will not be impacted by the other school at all. And, both your school and their school will be judged by folks like jobo, who laughs at the silly colors and stripes either way.

Teddy Atlas and Freddy Roach don't show up to the gym wearing belts, or badges... You can judge their skill as boxers by their records. You can judge their skill as trainers by their fighters. Again, that doesn't change how my school views belts and stripes and patches and such.

So, they want to give that gal a 5th degree black belt and make her a grand master at age 21.... Good for her. Good for them. Would I go to train with her? Or attend a seminar she taught? I'd have to see her for myself, to judge whether I want to take that time. Her belt and number of stripes have little to do with whether I go learn from her.

When I go to seminars, where there are multiple classes being taught. I don't go to the class with the highest ranked instructor. I go to the class that is teaching the thing I want to work on... or I go to the class taught by the person I think I can get the most from... Many times, the most valuable things I pick up, are from some of the lowest ranked instructors there.

I agree wholeheartedly with the spirit of your post. But, Teddy Atlas and Freddie Roache are far better trainers than they were boxers. And there ain't a damn thing wrong with that.

I am a huge fan of both, knew Freddie when he was a kid, actually had a locker next to his and his brothers in the South Side Gym in Boston. And along with Commentator Max Kellerman, Atlas and Roache are the only three people in the media I will actually listen to about anything having to do with boxing or boxing history.

And, again, I agree with the spirit of your post. But the practice of giving out black belts to neophyte students, in my opinion, weakens the entire Martial community. It's like handing out college diplomas to children who walk by a college a few times with their moms. Eventually, all diplomas will be considered as the same thing - nothing.

Being an old fart, I remember when this practice started, and who started it. And it seems to be getting worse.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hey, I was almost a Brown belt in Judo. Guy wanted me to teach Taiji at his Judo dojo, but he needed to cover me with his insurance. He could not do that unless I was a Brown belt or higher in Judo. So he was going to get me a brown belt, through his organization, in Judo...so I could teach taijiquan...... I declined...apparently this CMA guy, who trains in TCMA styles that do not have belt ranks, had more respect for the belt than he did

 

[drop bear]

One of the ridiculous things I see in martial arts, is people getting all upset and concerned about what another organization and or school does with the things that hold their gis closed. If some other organization wants to have one of their people wear a white, red, purple, neon blue, camo, tan, transparent belt... so what? That does not effect me or my school or my training at all. If that other school wants a certain number of stripes or pins or patches or things on one side and not the other... again, that makes no difference to me or my school.

That other school can do what it wants. That school will be judged by what it does and it has to live with the representation it makes... or they go out of business. No matter how grand, how ethical, how traditional your school does it... it will not be impacted by the other school at all. And, both your school and their school will be judged by folks like jobo, who laughs at the silly colors and stripes either way.

Teddy Atlas and Freddy Roach don't show up to the gym wearing belts, or badges... You can judge their skill as boxers by their records. You can judge their skill as trainers by their fighters. Again, that doesn't change how my school views belts and stripes and patches and such.

So, they want to give that gal a 5th degree black belt and make her a grand master at age 21.... Good for her. Good for them. Would I go to train with her? Or attend a seminar she taught? I'd have to see her for myself, to judge whether I want to take that time. Her belt and number of stripes have little to do with whether I go learn from her.

When I go to seminars, where there are multiple classes being taught. I don't go to the class with the highest ranked instructor. I go to the class that is teaching the thing I want to work on... or I go to the class taught by the person I think I can get the most from... Many times, the most valuable things I pick up, are from some of the lowest ranked instructors there.

Yes and no.

If you have greater standards and create better results you need to find a way to separate yourself from clubs and styles that don't.

And in a meaningful way.

So if you have a black belt and Gumby has a black belt you need something else as evidence of your method being viable.

 

[Headhunter]

Of course it's a load of crap and everyone who genuinely does martial arts knows it. All it is is to promote themselves to the ignorant by going ooh hey look at our 18 year old 5th Dan. Frankly a lot of the higher black belts seem to be done for that very reason. An ego trip and makes you sound better when promoting your club

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Oh no it begins a new.


But some places do have to award black belts to let people take higher up ranks in the orgnasation which do more management. Kind of a sad state but thats just that.

And arent there some which do some ranks as contribution to the arts so can mean anything?


Kind of wish they would reel back the sanctity of the higher belts and also train the lower belts pretty well.

Oh no WTF/ITF might give a blackbelt to a 15 year old, they defo have age requirement for the dans though which they dont meet to be 5th or at least a training timer. or something,t hey wont throw a 5th around like nothing but they might a first.

 

[Headhunter]

I agree wholeheartedly with the spirit of your post. But, Teddy Atlas and Freddie Roache are far better trainers than they were boxers. And there ain't a damn thing wrong with that.

I am a huge fan of both, knew Freddie when he was a kid, actually had a locker next to his and his brothers in the South Side Gym in Boston. And along with Commentator Max Kellerman, Atlas and Roache are the only three people in the media I will actually listen to about anything having to do with boxing or boxing history.

And, again, I agree with the spirit of your post. But the practice of giving out black belts to neophyte students, in my opinion, weakens the entire Martial community. It's like handing out college diplomas to children who walk by a college a few times with their moms. Eventually, all diplomas will be considered as the same thing - nothing.

Being an old fart, I remember when this practice started, and who started it. And it seems to be getting worse.

Only thing I know about teddy atlas is he pulled a gun on Tyson once

 

[Bruce7]

One of the ridiculous things I see in martial arts, is people getting all upset and concerned about what another organization and or school does with the things that hold their gis closed. If some other organization wants to have one of their people wear a white, red, purple, neon blue, camo, tan, transparent belt... so what? That does not effect me or my school or my training at all. If that other school wants a certain number of stripes or pins or patches or things on one side and not the other... again, that makes no difference to me or my school.

That other school can do what it wants. That school will be judged by what it does and it has to live with the representation it makes... or they go out of business. No matter how grand, how ethical, how traditional your school does it... it will not be impacted by the other school at all. And, both your school and their school will be judged by folks like jobo, who laughs at the silly colors and stripes either way.

Teddy Atlas and Freddy Roach don't show up to the gym wearing belts, or badges... You can judge their skill as boxers by their records. You can judge their skill as trainers by their fighters. Again, that doesn't change how my school views belts and stripes and patches and such.

So, they want to give that gal a 5th degree black belt and make her a grand master at age 21.... Good for her. Good for them. Would I go to train with her? Or attend a seminar she taught? I'd have to see her for myself, to judge whether I want to take that time. Her belt and number of stripes have little to do with whether I go learn from her.

When I go to seminars, where there are multiple classes being taught. I don't go to the class with the highest ranked instructor. I go to the class that is teaching the thing I want to work on... or I go to the class taught by the person I think I can get the most from... Many times, the most valuable things I pick up, are from some of the lowest ranked instructors there.

Interesting post. So you find me ridiculous, ok, you might be right.
What they do in the Tiger Rock TKD system does not affect me, so why should I be concerned, good point.
What are the other things you find ridiculous in MA?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

From Tiger Rock Newsletter
Big Congratulations to
Miss Bissler
on receiving official rank promotion to 5th Degree Black Belts at the World Championships in Orlando.

Tiger Rock is giving a 5th Degree Black Belt to an 18 year old .
If she were WTF or WTI she would be lucky to be a !st dan black belt given her skill level.
My definition of ridiculous.

Any given rank only means what it means within a given group. You seem to have a problem with this specific group, but why does it matter to you?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

An 18 year old 5th dan makes a mockery of the whole belt system. Is she going to be a grandmaster before she is 30, come on.

Her promotion only really matters insofar as anyone pays attention to it. I can't see why it matters much outside the group of people she trains with. I don't know what their standards are for any given rank, so I don't know if there's anything odd about her promotion.

There is no single "belt system". Every group pretty much has their own, though there are some commonalities between some groups.

 

[Buka]

Any given rank only means what it means within a given group. You seem to have a problem with this specific group, but why does it matter to you?

True. But the general public does not realize this. Heck, there’s thousands of Martial Artists that don’t realize this.

 

[Dirty Dog]

You know what's ridiculous? Getting all worked up about rank in a system that's not yours, and comparing it to WT rank. Which doesn't even exist.
Yeah. That's ridiculous.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

True. But the general public does not realize this. Heck, there’s thousands of Martial Artists that don’t realize this.

Yup. The amount of times someones overheard me talk about MA, then mention how their cousin or friend or nephew is a 3rd degree bb at 16, and ask me my rank, i know whats going through their heads when i tell them. And explaining that belts dont mean the same things is pointless, since it would just make me sound like im making excuses for being a 1st dan

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yup. The amount of times someones overheard me talk about MA, then mention how their cousin or friend or nephew is a 3rd degree bb at 16, and ask me my rank, i know whats going through their heads when i tell them. And explaining that belts dont mean the same things is pointless, since it would just make me sound like im making excuses for being a 1st dan

Yeah, it feels a lot like explaining to my grandmother that I don't repair computers for a living, just because I know more about them than most people.