The Nation of Islam and Racism

elder999

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So I’ve been putting off posting from the theme started in this thread.

Frankly, the whole Hindu caste thing, while fascinating, is a difficult nut to crack-still not sure it’s racist, but it results in racism. I’ll hopefully have something coherent to post on it soon. I’ve also been a little to busy. For your amusement, though, and to give at least some equal time to something that’s obvious (and absurd) I figured I’d get to the Nation of Islam-not to be confused with conventional Islam, neither Shia, Sunni nor Sufi, but the group more commonly known as the Black Muslims.

A little background: the Nation of Islam was founded in 1931 by a man who’s a bit of a mystery, Wallace D. Fard, later, Wallace Fard Muhammad. Fard met a man named Elijah Poole, who became the Honorable, Elijah Muhammad, and led the Nation of Islam until his death in 1975. Fard died in 1934-or later-more on this in a bit. In any case, Elijah Muhammad was the leader of the Nation for most of it’s history.

The basic tenet of the Nation of Islam is that there is no God but Allah. Unlike the Shia, who add to this "and Mohammad is his prophet," the Nation adds, "who came in the person of W.D. Fard". So the first bit of craziness, not racist-just garden variety religious gobbledygook, is that they believe that Fard was God incarnate, a madhi, or messiah.

However, once one delves into their cosmology and theology, things get more than a little weird, and step right off the black-Nazi boat. Most of these things can be found in a wealth of documents and public statements-for documents, there are Message to the Blackman in America, and The Supreme Wisdom. These books teach thing like:


The black man is the original, and only true human being.

The white man was created by a black mad-scientist (?!!) named Yakub, through a form of birth control, and was taught to deceive the original man through tricks and lies, so that they could divide them, conquer them, and rule over them.

That the white man is a "blue-eyed devil."

The black man is genetically superior to the white man.


The Nation also teaches other things-like complete separation of the races, but it also teaches independence, economic responsibility, and good citizenship. Like any reasonably successful religion, it gives order to some people’s lives, and there are many good people who practice this religion, and are good citizens. It also has a history of teaching divisiveness and hate. Some of its most famous members repudiated its teachings, and joined mainstream Islam: Malcom X and Muhammad Ali for starters, and rejected the racist teachings of the Nation of Islam-but only after publicly believing and saying some very hateful things that they later regretted. Some, like Louis Farakhan and his followers, are still preaching crazy stuff like this every day-Farakhan is even regularly on public access cable in Detroit, Chicago and Denver.

They also believe a lot of other crazy stuff, like Fard didn’t really die in 1935 (God, sorry, Allah, can’t die) he was transported to another plane in a spaceship. Of course, their believing that Fard is God is heretical to the rest of Islam, which, BTW, teaches that all races are equal.
 
"he was transported to another plane in a spaceship."
I've heard that one before, but they were referring to someone else.....
 
It's like a game of consequences, you keep one people down and someone from those people will find something that raises them up to not just being equal but superior. It's not sane but it is understandable. Put yourself in the place of a black man who was considered the lowest of the low, not even human and someone comes along preaching that actually you are better than the people who treat you so badly, it's an attractive idea. It gives hope and thats a very powerful emotion to use.
 
Religions are a great source of hope and wisdom...the only problem is that less than perfect people believe in them.

The idea of racism in the Black Muslim group, IMO, came about as a defense against the racism against the black people in society. It started as a way of combating the hardships that were already in place. But, instead of teaching how to overlook race and live as humans, it takes the opposite side of the arguments, fighting fire with fire, so to speak.

As far as the other crazy babble, I've noticed more and more often that other religions are starting to jump on this bandwagon...and this may be more of a topic for another thread...but I've noticed that religions that claim all of these strange and crazy ideas are usually started by 1 person...whereas the more traditional religions were started by a group of people, sometimes centering around 1 person.
 
Religions are a great source of hope and wisdom...the only problem is that less than perfect people believe in them.

The idea of racism in the Black Muslim group, IMO, came about as a defense against the racism against the black people in society. It started as a way of combating the hardships that were already in place. But, instead of teaching how to overlook race and live as humans, it takes the opposite side of the arguments, fighting fire with fire, so to speak.

As far as the other crazy babble, I've noticed more and more often that other religions are starting to jump on this bandwagon...and this may be more of a topic for another thread...but I've noticed that religions that claim all of these strange and crazy ideas are usually started by 1 person...whereas the more traditional religions were started by a group of people, sometimes centering around 1 person.

I wonder if with all the new technology we have now which in previous times woud have been regarded as either miracles or science fiction depending on your mindset, that religions/cults need ever more fantastic claims to gain followers? I know the followers believe but do you think the orginators do? Did Fard really believe what he preached or was it something he could persuade others of so they'd follow him?
 
I wonder if with all the new technology we have now which in previous times woud have been regarded as either miracles or science fiction depending on your mindset, that religions/cults need ever more fantastic claims to gain followers? I know the followers believe but do you think the orginators do? Did Fard really believe what he preached or was it something he could persuade others of so they'd follow him?

It sounds like from the OP that the believers adopted Fard as "God", but I'm not sure if that's fact. But that would be interesting to know....could clear up quite a few things, really.

If Fard is the one who came up with that, I'm not sure if he would have believed it or not. I think if we knew how he acted in everday society, we would be better able to tell. And I'm not really sure which would be worse, whether he wanted others to believe that he was "God" or if he actually believed that he was.

I think that if someone wants to believe something hard enough, they come up with reasons to believe it. It may not take much persuading on the part of someone like Fard.
 
It's like a game of consequences, you keep one people down and someone from those people will find something that raises them up to not just being equal but superior. It's not sane but it is understandable. Put yourself in the place of a black man who was considered the lowest of the low, not even human and someone comes along preaching that actually you are better than the people who treat you so badly, it's an attractive idea. It gives hope and thats a very powerful emotion to use.
You'd think that a generation of preferential treatment, reserved placement for schooling, being hired despite being unqualified for the job, free tutoring, and all that might have helped change things......
 
The black man is the original, and only true human being.

The white man was created by a black mad-scientist (?!!) named Yakub, through a form of birth control, and was taught to deceive the original man through tricks and lies, so that they could divide them, conquer them, and rule over them.

Political propaganda that has no basis in reality or history. It's a sad state of affairs, but I can't think of one predominately black nation that is a first world country (industrialized). Look at all of the turmoil and blacks killing blacks in many African countries, even in our own country. How does the religion actually address the worldwide problem?

Spouting racism as a religious idea is wrong on so many levels (not just including Nation of Islam, but all others as well, like Aryan Brotherhood, etc.)
 
I'm guessing the NOI isn't real popular with Iranian Muslims. Iran being an Aryan nation and all...
Hell, they should be hated by all the other Muslims, guessing again, but, Arabs aren't black, nor are the WHOLE lot of Muslims in Indonesia, India, etc...
 
It's like a game of consequences, you keep one people down and someone from those people will find something that raises them up to not just being equal but superior. It's not sane but it is understandable. Put yourself in the place of a black man who was considered the lowest of the low, not even human and someone comes along preaching that actually you are better than the people who treat you so badly, it's an attractive idea. It gives hope and thats a very powerful emotion to use.

That’s one view-the other being that if Fard had preached that the black people were at the lower in society because they belonged there, how many converts would he have gotten? If he had preached that they were where they were because it was their fault, how many converts would he have gotten. The fact is, preaching that you’re special, or you can become special through us, is pretty common to religions-in this case, though, it was spun in a way specific to the black man’s situation, and with some success. In the end, it’s sort of like Fard said, You’re God’s chosen people,-no, wait, that can’t be right…:lfao:

Political propaganda that has no basis in reality or history. It's a sad state of affairs, but I can't think of one predominately black nation that is a first world country (industrialized). Look at all of the turmoil and blacks killing blacks in many African countries, even in our own country. How does the religion actually address the worldwide problem?

It’s also worth pointing out that Fard’s racial teachings turned around a few thoughts that were common at the time, when eugenics was very popular, and there was a preoccupation with race in a variety of fields. The common (at the time) white supremacist idea that black people were somehow ”less evolved” than whites was turned around so that black people become the original uncorrupted peoples of the world and whites were defined as a degenerate offshoot.

It sounds like from the OP that the believers adopted Fard as "God", but I'm not sure if that's fact. But that would be interesting to know....could clear up quite a few things, really..

The idea that Fard was Allah incarnate came after he died-er, disappeared, er-I mean, after his transport to the Mother Plane :lol:probably a ‘revelation” from Elijah Muhammad:

from, Message to the Blackman in America
Allah (God) came to us from the Holy City Mecca, Arabia, in 1930. He used the name Wallace D. Fard, often signing it W.D. Fard. In the third year (1933), He signed His name W.F. Muhammad, which stands for Wallace Fard Muhammad. He came alone. He began teaching us the knowledge of ourselves, of God and the devil, of the measurement of the earth, of other planets, and of the civilizations of some of the planets other than earth.

“Fard” himself is something of a mystery, in terms of his identity, race, and disposition. The FBI investigated and actually think he was one of two men, either of Polynesian or half-Indian descent, possibly Pakistani or Turkish. He pretty much disappeared in 1934 or 1935, with some saying he went to Mecca, some saying he died, some saying Elijah Muhammad killed him, and official NOI teaching being that he is on the Mother Plane….

You'd think that a generation of preferential treatment, reserved placement for schooling, being hired despite being unqualified for the job, free tutoring, and all that might have helped change things......

Has it, though?

I'm guessing the NOI isn't real popular with Iranian Muslims. Iran being an Aryan nation and all
Hell, they should be hated by all the other Muslims, guessing again, but, Arabs aren't black, nor are the WHOLE lot of Muslims in Indonesia, India, etc...

The teaching that Fard was Allah incarnate is a heresy to mainstream Islam, and the NOI isn’t real popular with any of them. Of course, a great deal of black Africa is Muslim, so……
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Hubbard View Post
You'd think that a generation of preferential treatment, reserved placement for schooling, being hired despite being unqualified for the job, free tutoring, and all that might have helped change things......


Has it, though?
I'm in the middle of something that, when/if I post it, I'll be crucified over it....half the staff doesn't want it posted because it'll take a week to wade through all the flames....I'm trying to nail down some details and confirm a few points now. Be after New Years at the earliest.
 
I'm in the middle of something that, when/if I post it, I'll be crucified over it....half the staff doesn't want it posted because it'll take a week to wade through all the flames....I'm trying to nail down some details and confirm a few points now. Be after New Years at the earliest.


I'm a quiver with antici...........pation. :lol:
 
Elder, just out of pure, malicious curiosity... did you post this to simply provide information and spark discussion OR did you post it as a social experiment to see how many folks would find ways of justifying the teachings of the NOI that would have crucified (pun intended) a christian movement that had something akin to the same belief system? I've become rather intrigued with the way your mind works since you've been on site and either avenue wouldn't really surprise me. Good thread either way and informative. :asian:
 
Elder, just out of pure, malicious curiosity... did you post this to simply provide information and spark discussion OR did you post it as a social experiment to see how many folks would find ways of justifying the teachings of the NOI that would have crucified (pun intended) a christian movement that had something akin to the same belief system? I've become rather intrigued with the way your mind works since you've been on site and either avenue wouldn't really surprise me. Good thread either way and informative. :asian:

While I'll admit some curiosity for the latter point of view you've expressed, as well as curiosity about negative reactions, my motivation was simply to spark discussion. As I said in the "LDS Church and Racism" thread, I'd decided to make my religious project of the year one on racism within religions. I started with Mormonism because I read the Book of Mormon, looked for some things I was already aware of, and that was what sparked my interest in that particular vein. I'd decided to share parts of it as it progresses-pretty much to spark discussion and provide information.

I've been looking at the Hindu caste system; it's very frustrating.

I knew about the Nation of Islam from a lot of different avenues-my dad dealt with them quite a bit, both as a civil-rights activist in New York in the 60's and 70's, and as Senior Chaplain for the NYS prison system.I've also known a few, and had "the rap" aimed my way a few times. Even did martial arts with a few "Fruit of Islam" members-that is the NOI's "paramilitary" security force.

A fellow MartialTalker who was interested pinged me a while ago about further things from my project, but I've been kind of bogged down between the rest of my life and the whole caste system thing, and decided to post the readily available info on the NOI-they're an easy target in this regard, as so much of their doctrine is clearly racist-not to mention more than a little kooky. I'll probably get to Southern Baptists after I've got a handle on the caste system thing, though they have repudiated and apologized for their racist past. I'm also going to take a look at the Catholic Church, though their history is a little more subtle in this regard. I'll be looking at the Episcopal Church-the church I grew up in, and the one my father, grandfather and great-grandfather were priests in-though, again, they are more subtle (in some ways) in this regard. I expect I'll get in some of the more fringe sects that are outright racists, like the Christian Identity movement, but, again,they are pretty easy targets.

I'm also open to suggestions for sects to look at......
 
Thank you for that reply, Elder. I was raised Souther Baptist but rarely did we ever actually go to church. My question was sparked by the fact that I'd recently read the "How PC are you?" thread and got to thinking that many otherwise stable and rational people will avoid some conversations for fear of being considered racist and others will vehemently defend a position or group for no other reason than the PC "handbook" says so. I digress, though, as I risk derailing your thread. I look forward to reading more of your project as the year progresses.
 
elder, I'd be very interested in your observations on the caste system having run across problems in the UK with it in the past, unsolved sadly. However it may be easier if you investigated it as the Indian caste system rather than the Hindu as its also carried on by the Christians and the Muslims? I don't think it's rascist in it's self though there's a great deal of prejudice against people from the south of India with their darker skin!

There's still plenty of British people around who lived and worked in India before Independance who have written of their experiences there which may help? Many were administrators, police etc so outside the system but able to observe it accurately.
 
elder, I'd be very interested in your observations on the caste system having run across problems in the UK with it in the past, unsolved sadly. However it may be easier if you investigated it as the Indian caste system rather than the Hindu as its also carried on by the Christians and the Muslims? I don't think it's rascist in it's self though there's a great deal of prejudice against people from the south of India with their darker skin!

Since its foundations are in Hinduism, and my project is on 'religious doctrine and racism," that's what I'll call it. Otherwise, I've got material on everything you've spoken of-you're absolutely right.

That's why it's so damned frustrating to wrap up in a coherent ball....
 
Since its foundations are in Hinduism, and my project is on 'religious doctrine and racism," that's what I'll call it. Otherwise, I've got material on everything you've spoken of-you're absolutely right.

That's why it's so damned frustrating to wrap up in a coherent ball....


Ah I think you've hit the Indian problem! Now you know why Great Britain didn't contest Indian Independance and why so many Brits fell in love with a country where religions are mixed up, most beliefs are paradoxes and there's hundreds of gods! It's possibly the most fascinating place on earth and nobody even the Indians themselves say they understand it!.

I have a 'foster' daughter I support in India, she and her family are Buddhists but with an Indian twist! I wish you luck with your study!
 
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