The Martial Art of Tae Kwon Do

Manny

Senior Master
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
2,563
Reaction score
127
Location
Veracruz,Mexico
Over the last months if not years we have been discusing the thing of separate the Sport of TKD and the MA of TKD, here in this forum a great one BTW and have no doubt we are read for many people.For many the classic TKD rocks and the Sport/Olimpic TKD not.

Why there is not a single world wide organization (like the WTF) that focuses only in the martial art thing of TKD? It will be nice to have such organization because I am not married with the sport Tae Kwon Do concept, I like the traditional Tae Kwon Do the most.

Now, why if KKW/WTF knows there are plenty of people who want only the MA inside TKD or Classic Tae Kwon Do don't make a branch that only focuses in this aspect?

Manny
 

Disco

Green Belt
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
127
Reaction score
2
"Why there is not a single world wide organization (like the WTF) that focuses only in the martial art thing of TKD?"

There out there, but they use a different name other than TKD, because of the purported stigma that is associated with today's TKD.

"Now, why if KKW/WTF knows there are plenty of people who want only the MA inside TKD or Classic Tae Kwon Do don't make a branch that only focuses in this aspect?"

If there was money to be made, rest assured they would have done it a long time ago.
 

dancingalone

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
5,322
Reaction score
281
Why there is not a single world wide organization (like the WTF) that focuses only in the martial art thing of TKD? It will be nice to have such organization because I am not married with the sport Tae Kwon Do concept, I like the traditional Tae Kwon Do the most.


My question would be why focus on an organization instead of a teacher? If I were looking for instruction, I would rather find the best self-defense oriented TKD teacher out there myself and then seek to learn from him. If that means affiliating with an org, then so be it. If not, then fine too. Joining an org isn't going to guarantee me anything other than sending a check to somebody I haven't met face-to-face.

The source of instruction and enforcement of high standards come from skilled and ethical teachers, not some artificial social structure.
 

bignick

Senior Master
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
2,892
Reaction score
38
Location
Twin Cities
The source of instruction and enforcement of high standards come from skilled and ethical teachers, not some artificial social structure.

Another thing, Tae Kwon Do was basically created via committee. There was never quite the same driving creator like judo or aikido had. This quickly led many different branches and schools of thought.
 

ralphmcpherson

Senior Master
Joined
Sep 6, 2009
Messages
2,200
Reaction score
48
Location
australia
Im pretty sure you will find a lot of large tkd clubs with no affiliation tend to be more 'martial' than sport. For a start, if the club has no intentions of competing in WTF events then there is no real point in adhering to some larger organisation. I saw it happen with our club, once upon a time we were affiliated with the kukkiwon and all of our blackbelts had their kukki certificates and our GM would go to korea to be graded every few years. Gradually the kukkiwon (or whoever makes all the decisions) started focusing more on sport, and moved away from palgwes and started becoming more about the money and one day our GM just snapped and said enough is enough and ceased to have anything to do with the larger orgs. Basically, he felt that these larger orgs were moving away from what he thought 'real' tkd is supposed to be. At the time it was a huge call to do such a thing and he even lost some instructors and students because of the decision. But since then more and more clubs over here have done the same thing to try and stay true to what they believe tkd should be. These days if I were trying to find a club to teach good old fashioned tkd the way it used to be I would look out for large clubs (in excess of 2000 students) who have no affiliation with anybody and you will find some of the traditional stuff. There are exceptions, but I know of many large clubs teaching tkd the old way and they can do this because they dont have to answer to the powers that be that are trying to focus more on sport. There is also a real market out there for people wanting 'old school' tkd. In fact, the largest and most profitable clubs I know of dont teach any sport tkd at all.
 
OP
Manny

Manny

Senior Master
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
2,563
Reaction score
127
Location
Veracruz,Mexico
Here in my country if your dojang is not afiliated to Federacion Mexicana de Tae Kwon Do (The Mexican federation of Tae Kwon Do is WTF/KKW recogniced) is nothing. It's sad but if you are a traditional dojang with no filiation to the FMTKD your dojang is no more than a small dojang with no recognition, so it's important to be afiliated.

Sometime ago two american citizens came to our dojang, they were from arkansas or something like that, they were taekwondoings but the maeter they have in USA was not afiliated to KKW/WTF, the master was an old high rank korean master who has is own organization, so grading is not a problem to them, they leanr palgew forms and the way they sparr is something more karate, offcourse they use kicks the most but they also used their hands to block,parry and to punch or use hand techs.

These guys had a small exposure to WTF/KKW taeguks and way of teaching and liked it but they stay with his old forms and way of sparr and hosisul.

Manny
 

Daniel Sullivan

Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
May 27, 2008
Messages
6,472
Reaction score
271
Location
Olney, Maryland
Over the last months if not years we have been discusing the thing of separate the Sport of TKD and the MA of TKD, here in this forum a great one BTW and have no doubt we are read for many people.For many the classic TKD rocks and the Sport/Olimpic TKD not.

Why there is not a single world wide organization (like the WTF) that focuses only in the martial art thing of TKD? It will be nice to have such organization because I am not married with the sport Tae Kwon Do concept, I like the traditional Tae Kwon Do the most.

Now, why if KKW/WTF knows there are plenty of people who want only the MA inside TKD or Classic Tae Kwon Do don't make a branch that only focuses in this aspect?

Manny
There are three such organizations:

Kukkiwon: The Kukkiwon establishes grading standards and awards rank. The Kukkiwon publishes a textbook (which I happen to own) that covers the Kukkiwon curriculum.

The Kukkiwon is rather hands off with regards to schools. There is no such thing as a member school, thus the Kukkiwon has no mechanism for regulating schools.

There are schools that teach Kukki taekwondo. If the owner is fourth dan or higher, he or she may rank students up to two dan grades below their own and submit the paperwork to the Kukkiwon. They certify that they are teaching taekwondo in accordance with Kukkiwon standards and the Kukkiwon serves as a certification body.

The sport is regulated separately by the WTF at this point in time (I hear rumblings of changes within the WTF, however, though others here are better informed than I).

ITF: Though the ITF is worldwide, they are also split into three groups, each called the ITF (four if you count the NK ITF). The ITF promotes Chang Hon taekwondo which includes a sportive element and has their own tournaments.

STF: The ATA, which promotes Songam taekwondo, overseas is called the STF (Songam Taekwondo Federation). The ATA/STF has martial art with a sportive aspect.

Of the three, the Kukkiwon is the only one that regulates the art separately from the sport, with the other two going on the philosophy that the sport is an important part of the art itself rather than a completely separate element.

Daniel
 

chrispillertkd

Senior Master
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
2,096
Reaction score
107
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
ITF: Though the ITF is worldwide, they are also split into three groups, each called the ITF (four if you count the NK ITF). The ITF promotes Chang Hon taekwondo which includes a sportive element and has their own tournaments.

Actually, there are only three splinter groups climaing to be the ITF. Yes, it can be hard to keep up with things ;) ITF-C (for Canada), which is headed by Gen. Choi's son, Grand Master Choi, Jung Hwa; ITF-V (for Viena), which was headed by the late GM Tran Trieu Quan and is now headed by GM Tratjenberg (sp?); and ITF-NK (for North Korea) headed by IOC member Chang Ung.

The C-, V-, and NK- appelations are a bit misleading as GM Choi's group actually has its administrative headquarters in England, GM Tratjenberg's group is, I believe in Italy now, and Chang Ung's group is in Viena. They are commonly used terms for each group, however.

There are two other groups led by IX dans promoted by Gen. Choi. GM Hwang, Kwang Sung formed the Unified-ITF a couple years after Gen. Choi died and GM Chuck Sereff took his USTF (United States Taekwon-Do Federation) independent from the ITF a year after Gen. Choi died. But neither claim to be "the ITF."

The whole thing of having various groups is a bit disheartening for some but, ultimately, it doesn't effect me personally. I'm quite happy with the group my instructors are affiliated with, both nationally and the ITF we're under.

The whole thing does kind of remind me of what happened after Mas Oyama died, however.

Pax,

Chris
 

Latest Discussions

Top