The Heart of The Art

[Elayna]

Hey everyone,

As I have been studying the forums and the posts made by tons of people I have seen how much everyone in these forums really truly loves his or her art. Even from the youngest of peeps to the oldest. Whether you are new to the art, or a master, or even in between. One thing that we all hold in common is the love of The Art. But....

Why is it that when you look through the forums you dont see love, you see bickering, frustration, and yes, even anger more then anything?? When we all love this art so much why do we literally fight with each other? Not just simple discussions and debates but flame wars and calling people stupid and so on. When have we become so childish that instead of loving and respecting somone, because they love what we do, we hurt them, insult them and degrade them in anyway we can think of? Is this what the original masters had in mind when they told us to make a family? Is this what they had in mind when they talked of peace and harmony? Is this what they had in mind when they spoke of being one with The Art?

We train hours on end to fight an enemy that is lurking in the shadows waiting to pounce. We condition or mind and our bodies for the unexpected. But do we ever condition our heart? Peeps...We have become so cold. Our training that we have is more often used on our friends and our neighbors then our enemy. It is often used even...on our families. Why?? How have we become to where we isolate ourselves in a dojo or in a place where all we do is train for the moment when that shadow attacks? Where family, love, and a social life among our friends, among our village if you will is only 3rd or 4th on our list? Is this what the great masters teach us?
I think not!!
Without a heart, a warrior is nothing but an empty shell. Without something to fight for, what encouragement does a warrior have? Fighting for glory will only get you so far. But fighting for your family, for your friends, for love...will get you much further then a petty goal of glory. Fighting for medals, for a belt, for a rank, will only get you material things to take with you to heaven. But fighting for the things that you love, for the things and the people that will be there for you, long after the momentary pleasure of winning will.
Our Hearts people, is what defines us as warriors, as people and as humans. And to me, the old masters try to tell us, that this is what we need to concentrate on more then anything. Being one with The Art, through Body, Mind and Spirit (Heart). Is it just me, or do we concentrate more on the Body, and Mind, then on the Heart?
I ask you everyone....Today...Look at someone you love, admire or respect and ask yourself....Do I show them love? Love through respecting them or telling them or just listening to them. I do not mean love purley as a romantic sentiment...I mean it as so much more...and I hope you understand that.

Anyways...I hope that this post will help someone out there to see more in life then just what they have. Because there is always more.

Love ya all. Even if I dont know you. Everyone has something about them to love...even if its just that their a pain in the butt.

 

[Bigshadow]

Without a heart, a warrior is nothing but an empty shell. Without something to fight for, what encouragement does a warrior have?

Good morning Elayna! I would highly recommend you read

"Living the Martial Way: A Manual for the Way a Modern Warrior Should Think"
by Forrest E. Morgan
ISBN: 0942637763

 

[Kacey]

Why is it that when you look through the forums you dont see love, you see bickering, frustration, and yes, even anger more then anything??

Because we are human beings - and no matter how much we strive for perfection, we are not perfect. In addition, people who participate in any activity for the long term tend to be passionate about that activity - and when person A and person B are equally passionate about different arts, that passion is going to become evident in their responses; when they are passionate about different variants of the same art, and disagree on the points of variance, that passion is going to be even more evident.

When we all love this art so much why do we literally fight with each other? Not just simple discussions and debates but flame wars and calling people stupid and so on. When have we become so childish that instead of loving and respecting somone, because they love what we do, we hurt them, insult them and degrade them in anyway we can think of?

See above. Also, the advantage and disadvantage of instant input provided by a bulletin board adds to this. It is much easier to respond without thinking to a disembodied name on the 'net than to respond similarly to a person with whom you are face to face. For many people, it is easy to respond in the heat of the moment, in the fire of the conversation, than to stop and think about the people who will be reading what has been written... and the fact that few people know others on the board personally makes that easier. The reality of the human condition is that people want to believe that what they have chosen for themselves (or had chosen, depending on the activity) is the best choice there could possibly be - and therefore that choice needs to be defended, and those who have made a different choice, or no choice at all, need to be convinced of the error of their ways.

However, I will say that I have been on other boards which much looser moderation (in one case, none at all), and those boards are nasty - not just the profanity, but the personal attacks, offers to show up and beat the crap out of people, and so on. No matter how out of line, rude, nasty, etc. you may think some participants on this board are, the control is there to prevent it from getting out of hand... and there's always the RTM feature, if you think someone has overstepped.

Is this what the original masters had in mind when they told us to make a family? Is this what they had in mind when they talked of peace and harmony? Is this what they had in mind when they spoke of being one with The Art?

Is it what they meant philosophically? I doubt it... but again, masters who created their own arts thought that they had the best of the possible choices out there - and many of them weren't afraid to say so; certainly, their followers generally are not afraid to say so. Competition is a facet of human existence, and does not preclude peace, harmony, or being one with the Art... especially if the road to such peace, harmony, and oneness requires bringing the Art to people who don't necessarily want it. An anology would be any religion that proselityzes; the ultimate goal of the religion is peace, harmony, and the oneness of humanity... which can only happen if everyone is brought to this truth - kicking and screaming and protesting, if need be. Did all the old master espouse this method? Not at all... but their followers, or their followers followers... those who missed the peace, harmony and oneness part and latched onto the superiority portion... it's hard to judge this for other people.

We train hours on end to fight an enemy that is lurking in the shadows waiting to pounce. We condition or mind and our bodies for the unexpected. But do we ever condition our heart? Peeps...We have become so cold. Our training that we have is more often used on our friends and our neighbors then our enemy. It is often used even...on our families. Why?? How have we become to where we isolate ourselves in a dojo or in a place where all we do is train for the moment when that shadow attacks? Where family, love, and a social life among our friends, among our village if you will is only 3rd or 4th on our list? Is this what the great masters teach us?
I think not!!

Your training may be more often used on your friends and neighbors, and/or your family; mine never has been. My students know that abuse of what they have been taught will get them kicked out... and in 15 years, I've never had anyone abuse what they've learned from me, because part of the lessons I teach is always appropriate use. Many arts dropped the moral component originally present - often (but not always) in the transition from "art" to "sport" or "exercise"; some dropped it because it was present in the culture and not taught directly in the art, then the culture changed and the lessons were not put back in; there are, no doubt, other reasons as well.

Without a heart, a warrior is nothing but an empty shell. Without something to fight for, what encouragement does a warrior have? Fighting for glory will only get you so far. But fighting for your family, for your friends, for love...will get you much further then a petty goal of glory. Fighting for medals, for a belt, for a rank, will only get you material things to take with you to heaven. But fighting for the things that you love, for the things and the people that will be there for you, long after the momentary pleasure of winning will.

I don't dispute this - but many people have not reached this point. For too many people, material awards are the sole reason to participate in an activity. Children whose parents bribe them into school performance by paying for grades, adults who only perform their job well because they want a better position or more money, anyone who finds learning unnecessary unless there is some material "payback" for learning... these people are all missing the boat, and they are all to prevalent within American society. As an instructor (and a school teacher, for that matter), I work hard to instill in my students a love of learning and self-improvement for their own sake - but many people never overcome the materialistic values instilled by society to reach the moral levels at which one does what is right because it is right, rather than to gain rewards or avoid punishment. This is not the fault of the art, but more of the overwhelming presence of the goals and values of the larger society.

Our Hearts people, is what defines us as warriors, as people and as humans. And to me, the old masters try to tell us, that this is what we need to concentrate on more then anything. Being one with The Art, through Body, Mind and Spirit (Heart). Is it just me, or do we concentrate more on the Body, and Mind, then on the Heart?
I ask you everyone....Today...Look at someone you love, admire or respect and ask yourself....Do I show them love? Love through respecting them or telling them or just listening to them. I do not mean love purley as a romantic sentiment...I mean it as so much more...and I hope you understand that.

See previous paragraph.

Anyways...I hope that this post will help someone out there to see more in life then just what they have. Because there is always more.
[/quote]

The people who understand it will appreciate it greatly; the people who don't understand will blow it off. The people who are close to understanding, however, may be tipped over into understanding by it - and therefore it is valuable.

 

[Touch Of Death]

If Martial Arts are your passion, why should you not be passionant about it?
Sean

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

I'm fairly certain that's paraphrased and I don't know the author; but, it's contextually correct.

There is always something to fight for, within and without.

 

[Elayna]

Big Shadow...
Thanks for the book recomendation. In fact, my husband actually owns the book and agrees it is to be put on my reading list. (reading list is veryyyy long. LOL). Thanks again.

Touch Of Death...
If martial arts is your passion then by all means. I never said and Im sorry if I implied you should not be passionate about it. But having passion and manners is a good combo. Also, having respect for those that have a different passion is also good, yes?

Kacey....
Reply to come..long. Hehehe

So many things that you said are so true. We are indeed imperfect creatures. Imperfect humans of great potential. And because of this great potential, I believe that the more we look at our behavior, others behavior and so many other aspects of our existence we will be able to take hold of that potential.
I believe something very simple. However much we love is how much we can hate. I think this is shown in the boards and in our lives. We love something so much, whether it be a person, thing, or a belief (many other things as well) that we can also hate in the same way.
I agree that not being perfect can definatly excuse alot of human behavior, but there has to be a point where we stop using that as an excuse. Not being perfect, for me, is no excuse not to improve upon yourself and upon society. Being rude, inconsiderate and plain mean to others is not cool.
We teach our children to be kind and gentle. To be non-prejudical and not care what a person looks like, what gender they are, what country their from and so on. So why dont adults do what they teach?
Being passionate about your particular art is wonderful. But..being passionate to where everyone must agree with you or they are stupid, uneducated or unenlightened is not good.
Now I can see the dilema in this, just like with religon. If your one religon you think everyones going to hell..while your rival religon says the same thing. Just like with martial arts. One art says their the "true art" while yet the rival one is saying the exact same thing.
So how do we get past this? Is it even possible? Especially with how humans defend their beliefs and refuse to think any other way?
Well I say thats where we start. Start thinking different ways. Im not saying to give up on what you believe or even say what you believe is wrong. Im just saying, I think we should start realizing everyone thinks just like we do, and thats whats causing the conflict. So change it up. Just like you wouldnt attack with the same move over and over if its effectiveness stopped. So..change it up.
And Im going to be blunt ok.
We need to stop trying to show our friends and rival dojos how big our thingys are, and start showing our enemys how big our thingys are. Because people who practice the art to protect their village and their family and innocent people arent our enemies. And if we keep badgering them because they are "different" or they dont know as much as we do. When the time comes to raise flags together and fight our common enemy are they really going to want to raise their flag next to someone who was mean and big jerk? I think not.
I believe that this thought can not only be used in the martial arts world but internationally and even wife and husband.
We need to stop competing against each other just to show who is bigger or stronger and start working with each other for the "final battle" if you will.
Ok I know dramatic...But it needed to be said. And dont worry Im prepared for the whipping post. LOL

*stop thinking "oh i can show them" of "im better then them" and start thinking "what can I learn from them" and "how can I help them"*

*To help others is not always to sacrafice for them, sometimes it is to help yourself become better*

Anyways....I hope I havent been to blunt or unfeeling.
I really do appreciate all the responses. Because I really do feel that it is time for a wake up call.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

I think part of the problem is, no matter how some people will disagree with this, is that martial arts, is by it's very nature, combative. Yes, I know some arts are used as a metaphor for the joining together of mankind, or spiritual self improvement. But when it comes down to it, these systems were initially designed to render enemies combat ineffectual. The "my style is better" arguments I'm sure reach back to the time of the founding of the second combative system.

Should we be better now? It's hard to say. From an evolutionary standpoint, not much time has passed since the first systemized forms of combat. But we should all strive to better ourselves all the time. It doesn't matter if we use the Martial Arts as the metaphor to help us along with that.

Martial arts doesn't make better people. An individual makes a better person. But if you are going to use Martial Arts as the metaphor to help you in your journey to self improvement, remember that it came from one simple purpose. To kill.

Jeff

 

[Xue Sheng]

I think part of the problem is, no matter how some people will disagree with this, is that martial arts, is by it's very nature, combative. Yes, I know some arts are used as a metaphor for the joining together of mankind, or spiritual self improvement. But when it comes down to it, these systems were initially designed to render enemies combat ineffectual. The "my style is better" arguments I'm sure reach back to the time of the founding of the second combative system.

Should we be better now? It's hard to say. From an evolutionary standpoint, not much time has passed since the first systemized forms of combat. But we should all strive to better ourselves all the time. It doesn't matter if we use the Martial Arts as the metaphor to help us along with that.

Martial arts doesn't make better people. An individual makes a better person. But if you are going to use Martial Arts as the metaphor to help you in your journey to self improvement, remember that it came from one simple purpose. To kill.

Jeff

I don't want to argue and I don't want to rant, I just don't have it in me today. But I have to agree with what Jeff said.

Love is a good thing, very good actually, but it was never the historical basis of martial arts.

 

[Bigshadow]

All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

Just thought I would throw this out here

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

 

[Xue Sheng]

EDIT: Please see next post, I had an error here I could not correct and ended up with a duplicate post so I deleted this one.

Sorry for the mess.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Resolve to be a master of change rather than a victim of change.
--Brian Tracy

Change does not change tradition. It strengthens it.
Change is a challenge and an opportunity; not a threat.
--Prince Phillip of England

Clarification: I am not justifying arguing fighting and rudeness on MT nor am I even refuting what is being posted. However historically love is not the basis of Martial arts that is all.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

I would also like to make it clear that I don't appreciate, and try really hard not to participate in arguments that sometimes occur here.

Jeff

 

[MRE]

Hey everyone,

As I have been studying the forums and the posts made by tons of people I have seen how much everyone in these forums really truly loves his or her art. Even from the youngest of peeps to the oldest. Whether you are new to the art, or a master, or even in between. One thing that we all hold in common is the love of The Art. But....

Why is it that when you look through the forums you dont see love, you see bickering, frustration, and yes, even anger more then anything?? When we all love this art so much why do we literally fight with each other? Not just simple discussions and debates but flame wars and calling people stupid and so on. When have we become so childish that instead of loving and respecting somone, because they love what we do, we hurt them, insult them and degrade them in anyway we can think of? Is this what the original masters had in mind when they told us to make a family? Is this what they had in mind when they talked of peace and harmony? Is this what they had in mind when they spoke of being one with The Art?

We train hours on end to fight an enemy that is lurking in the shadows waiting to pounce. We condition or mind and our bodies for the unexpected. But do we ever condition our heart? Peeps...We have become so cold. Our training that we have is more often used on our friends and our neighbors then our enemy. It is often used even...on our families. Why?? How have we become to where we isolate ourselves in a dojo or in a place where all we do is train for the moment when that shadow attacks? Where family, love, and a social life among our friends, among our village if you will is only 3rd or 4th on our list? Is this what the great masters teach us?
I think not!!
Without a heart, a warrior is nothing but an empty shell. Without something to fight for, what encouragement does a warrior have? Fighting for glory will only get you so far. But fighting for your family, for your friends, for love...will get you much further then a petty goal of glory. Fighting for medals, for a belt, for a rank, will only get you material things to take with you to heaven. But fighting for the things that you love, for the things and the people that will be there for you, long after the momentary pleasure of winning will.
Our Hearts people, is what defines us as warriors, as people and as humans. And to me, the old masters try to tell us, that this is what we need to concentrate on more then anything. Being one with The Art, through Body, Mind and Spirit (Heart). Is it just me, or do we concentrate more on the Body, and Mind, then on the Heart?
I ask you everyone....Today...Look at someone you love, admire or respect and ask yourself....Do I show them love? Love through respecting them or telling them or just listening to them. I do not mean love purley as a romantic sentiment...I mean it as so much more...and I hope you understand that.

Anyways...I hope that this post will help someone out there to see more in life then just what they have. Because there is always more.

Love ya all. Even if I dont know you. Everyone has something about them to love...even if its just that their a pain in the butt.

Hi Elayna,

I agree that the love of our arts is the common theme in this forum. The passion for the martial arts that can be gleened from almost every thread is the reason I originally joined the forum. However, I stay active in the forum because of the warmth I see in most of the posts. Therefore, I have to disagree with you when you say that you only see bickering, frustration, and anger in the forum.

In my opinion, the posts generally show people connecting positively, some on a martial level and others on a personal level. On a martial level, there are numerous threads with members helping others with their techniques, others with members helping with choosing a school, and still others with members giving safety advice or healing tips. In these threads and hundreds like them, I see exchanges of ideas, not dueling ideals. I can't speak for the original masters, but this has to be a good thing.

On a personal level, it is amazing to see members sharing and congratulating each other on their high points (joining a new art, passing a belt test, buying a car, birth of their children). However, I think it is outstanding to see the members share and comfort each other through their low points. I saw a thread where members comforted another who had lost a relative, another where members helped another quell his need for revenge, and still another where members had helped comfort another to face her agressors in court. I don't know if you can call it "love", but the warmth I saw in those threads and hundreds like them definitely showed a positive connection. Sure there are posts that poke fun at others, throw insults, etc. But those angry posts, in my opinion, make up such a small percentage of the total on this forum.

I don't know if your idea that martial artists have become cold is based on your own personal experience, but I am sure that it can not be based solely on this forum. Because, in my opinion after reading through their posts, most of the members have good hearts. I am sure their hearts weren't developed through martial arts, but it certainly wasn't frozen by the arts either. For the most part, it sounds like martial arts help get some closer to their family, whether it be sharing an activity or passion with a spouse or child, or having an activity for themselves that help them destress and stay healthy so they can spend quality time with their loved ones.

If some decide to fight for medals, ribbons, or belts, I think that is great! Those are all goals that will help motivate a person to get better at something they love. And just because a person is chasing those personal goals, it doesn't mean that their family is automatically a lesser priority.

For me, I don't fight for medals or ribbons. Actually, I don't fight at all unless someone threatens my wife or children. Actually, this is also a common theme in alot of threads. Many members feel strongly about protecting those they love, whether it be their family or training partners which makes me believe that most members here will have no problem saying that they do show love to those that they love, admire, and respect on a consistent basis.

Of course, this post was all based on reading through the various threads for the past couple of months and my humble opinion.

Take care

 

[pstarr]

Well said, MRE!

We're all members of a big family and like any other siblings, we argue and fight from time to time...

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

Just thought I would throw this out here

Hey! I was only off by one! Thanks, shadow

 

[terryl965]

Passion is the force that drives true Martial Artist to continue there journey deeper and deeper into there particular Art.

Love is what keeps them from confronting every single person on earth that believes MA has no merit value in life.

Being a true MA'ist we have to be both all the time no-matter what happens in our lifes, we cannot and should not be perfect God gave us a will. Therefore all MA'ist strive for the ever lasting (To be perfect) syndrome in reality perfection is the journey, the journey that will never end either here on earth or in heaven.

Just my thought anyway.
Terry

 

[Elayna]

Hey everybody,

First off I just wanted to say Thank You for all the replies. Secondly I wanted to say.
Im really sorry If I have offended anyone by this post. I didnt mean to anyway state that they family that people have created here or in the dojo by anymeans in not relevant or made of love. I have a bit of an issue with wording things. LOL. Again, Im sorry.

That being said, Let me try and clarify what I was trying to say.

When I look through the different boards and forums on this site, I do see all the negative things I mentioned. But, I also see good things. Unfourtunatly though, I dont believe that the good things shine through brite enough. Because when there are tons of green marks and then a red mark is put in, it stands out. Especially when there are more and more red marks. And in some cases more red marks then green marks.
Now by no means am I saying that everyone here is mean and argumentative. But, I do have to say, that I have viewed more then my fair share of negative posts.
Also, mentioning Kacey's mention of martial arts never being used against people she loved. Well I do hate to say this, martial arts has been used for hurtful reasons in my family and in many families that I know of. I have never used it to hurt someone personally, only when I needed to defend myself. But, I also hate to say, it is more common then I think we care to admit.
Going to the posts in regards to martial arts starting out as a form a killing. I have to say that I agree 50%. I believe that yes, the body part of martial arts was indeed made for killing. But I see before that. Why did they need to kill? Because they wanted to protect what was theirs. Because they Loved it. Their families, their land and their homes. Even their village. For those masters that started the art. It was indeed in my opinion created also out of love as well as the need to kill.
Now for those people who used martial arts to conquer. That was not love, that was desire. And that is the 50% of the art that they used. The killing part, to accomplish their desire. This is the part that I personally try to refine and not concentrate on.
I believe we all have the choice to use the 'body' part of this art to kill out of love, or to kill for conquer or desire, if you will.
I have personally seen dojos nation wide, families nation wide, and forums world wide that have become cold and distant. Meaning...
They have become so concerned about the 50% body part with desire attached that they have failed to see the love part in which martial arts originated. I also believe, that not being able to see this is not a fault. For this world needs warriors of this type. But, not to many. Everything in moderation.
My point being...I dont believe it is moderation anymore. I believe that the goal for medals, glory and so on has become predominent in our society. I dont think there is anything wrong with the aspiration for medals etc. But, when that becomes something you wish to have more then anything else and you sacrafice everything for that...maybe it is no longer moderation or balanced. It is obbessive.
I myself have gone through wanting medals and trophies. I had a few. I loved the feeling I had. I felt on top of the world. But now, that Im older I see...It really wasnt on top of the world.
But...That was my lesson. And each person has their own.
I guess what Im trying to say is...
Remember that for whatever you are striving for, their is a flip side. Consider that before you give everyting and more to one particular thing.
I do have to say, I agree with giving your all to a cause. But giving your all, and still having a little left for others is one thing. But giving your all and having nothing left except for that particular thing, is...well in my opinion not good.
The heart is what we need to remember when we partice, meditate and spar. When you connect with your heart. When you put your mind and your body in that state, you will become stronger then anything you can imagine. But of course getting there is the biggest challenge.

Again...I hope that you all understand in no way is my intention to insult a family of yours. I merely am stating what I have personally seen, because there may be someone out there in my shoes too. Im just wanting to help.

Thanks all for listening. Happy Posting.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I was neither offended nor insulted.

Like I said love is a good thing.

And I am not going to dispute your belief.

Historically Martial arts were for survival and it could be if nothing else interpreted as a love for life I suppose.

XS :asian:

 

[SFC JeffJ]

Nor am I offended Elanya. We just have different opinions.

I'd say your are about 50% right as well. I am sure that many arts were developed originally by thugs, regardless of what their proponents are taught today. You have to remember, the high ideals of many of the arts out there today really have only been around for a short time.

Now one thing I think is very important that I didn't bring up in my previous post. Using Aikido as an example, and it's "message" of harmony between peoples. It's roots are in Aiki-Jujutsu, a battlefield art. I think once you consider the fact that Aikido came from an art who's idea was to throw and or control your opponent so you could stab him easier makes the harmonious metaphor of Aikido all the more compelling.

When it comes down to it, I believe the Heart of the Art is purely physical. We go to the dojo to learn physical techniques. Whether to not we choose to use what we learn there as a metaphor for life, and what lessons we use to do that with, is an individual choice, not a universal one.

Jeff

 

[Elayna]

That is true. How we decide to use the teachings that were given is definatly up to us. Which is one of the things I love so much about free will you know.
I just wanted to put out there my opinion on everything. Just so that maybe it would spark some thought in people. Agreement and disagreement.
Im glad I didnt offend anyone. Just wanted to make sure you know.
I just wannnaaaa be looooveeed. Hehehehehe

Anyways....You all have a good night, signing off for now.

I hope that you all have liked the post. Many more...unusual posts to come. LOL