The far right in Europe is really the far left...

[Josh Oakley]

Now you say that America and Europe have different definitions of both socialism and capitalism. I say that's a complete load of bollocks. And I have friends in Europe that would disagree with you. But there is q simple way to find out: what is your definition of socialism? What is your definition of communism. In Europe, what is the primary difference or differences?

 

[RandomPhantom700]

Wow, 5 pages so far, this belong on someone's ego wall. :rofl:

 

[Tez3]

I am sorry if I come off as lecturing. Not my intent. Just long winded. However, at least in THIS discussion I have yet to hear you talk 2 dimensionally. It's all been in 1 dimension: single axis continuum, ultimately consisting of left and right. As far as for my definitions reeking of propoganda... Hpwever, I was using the Oxford dictionary, Mirriam-Webster, and the Communist Manifesto. One source was propaganda for certain, but done by the father of both. The key difference between communism and socialism, in the LEXICAL definition, is whether or not goods are equally distributed.

Josh, you aren't understanding what I'm saying...we have, me and many others tried discussing this left/right issue with Billcihak in as many dimensions as we can but it simply doesn't work, it goes back to being left is bad, right is good, until he fleshes out his theories we can go no further and as I said it's wearying to try and discuss things just to have Ann Coulter chucked at you. this is one the argumetns are one dimensional, we can't break out of the credo Billcihak lives by, it's his mantra... lefties are bad, nasty and violent, the right are calm, peaceful and productive, yes he said that so how exactly do you suggest discussing the subject with any depth when this is what you get. I'm tired of posting about this, I only did on this thread because I find the French National Front a dangerous and nasty affront to decent humans, I don't care what economic policies makes them left or right, it's their other policies that worry me.


Billcihak that 'one' professor' was the peer world accepted expert on Nazi Germany and German history with pages of credits and qualifications from the best universities in the word, you said he was brainwashed by the left so what did you expect me to post after that. Trying to have a serious discussion with you is like trying to nail ice cream to the wall. As for Nobel prize winners well Obama is one isn't he, does that make him acceptable in your eyes or are you still hating him?

 

[billc]

Something tells me the protesters here pooping on police cars are not right wingers.

 

[billc]

Actually, I never use Ann Coulter to argue that the nazis and fascists were a type of socialism. I'm sure Ann would agree, but I use Ph.D.s in economics and political science to support my argument.

 

[billc]

Oh, I don't hate Obama, I feel sorry for him really. He is a deluded man who has a warped set of principals that are going to damage the country. I do want him VOTED out of office at the next opportunity. 2012 can't come soon enough.

 

[Tez3]

Something tells me the protesters here pooping on police cars are not right wingers.

Something tells me I really don't care. For all we know, like the 'rioters' in the UK they are criminals with long records. Two thirds of the so called rioters were found to be convicted criminals, somehow I doubt politics comes into what they were doing.

By the way 'pooping' is a infantile word, if you mean defecating say so. I imagine it takes certain amount of dexterity to do that on a police car so perhaps they are right wingers ( a Latin joke)

 

[billc]

Careful Tez, if you are going to refer to the protesters as criminals Makalakumu is going to give you a lecture on civil disobedience.

 

[Tez3]

Careful Tez, if you are going to refer to the protesters as criminals Makalakumu is going to give you a lecture on civil disobedience.

Oh my... so where did I refer to them as criminals then? You see, you misread what I write, that's quite sinister really.

 

[billc]

Well, you stated the "rioters" in the U.K. were criminals with long records and you said for all you know the silly people here in the states were just like them.

Tez:

For all we know, like the 'rioters' in the UK they are criminals with long records.

 

[billc]

Believe me, you don't want the "protesters and civil disobedience" lecture from Makalakumu.

 

[Tez3]

Well, you stated the "rioters" in the U.K. were criminals with long records and you said for all you know the silly people here in the states were just like them.

Tez:

Oh dear, I said two thirds of the RIOTERS, that word doesn't mean demonstrators, had criminal records and thats a fact, they were inc ourt again so their records came up. They were RIOTERS, looting and destroying property even killing people. At no time did they say they were demonstrating against or for anything. Some were on Facebook telling people what they were doing... stealing.... Do pay attention.

You don't like Makalakumu's view fine but please don't talk about him behind his back. It's sneaky, petty and attacking a poster not his posts.

 

[Sukerkin]

Actually, I never use Ann Coulter to argue that the nazis and fascists were a type of socialism. I'm sure Ann would agree, but I use Ph.D.s in economics and political science to support my argument.

I'm not taking part in this any further than I already have (because it makes my teeth ache) but if I could put in an information request for BillC to repost those economists of stature that he has posted before that he uses as sources (in a PM if you could so I can keep my word and stay out of the mud). You'll have to forgive me but I don't recall you linking to anyone who had sufficient professional gravitas or credence to overturn the body of qualified opinion on these matters in my eyes, so a refresher would be nice.

I must warn you in advance that if any of them are Austrian School then they already start with a strike against them for lack of critical thinking, doubly so if they have marked Right Wing bias, triply so if they are 'media mouth-pieces'. I prefer my academics of influence to be impartial and to have good arguments backed up by solid econometric analysis if at all possible.

 

[Empty Hands]

I'm not taking part in this any further than I already have (because it makes my teeth ache) but if I could put in an information request for BillC to repost those economists of stature that he has posted before that he uses as sources (in a PM if you could so I can keep my word and stay out of the mud).

They're Movement Conservatives with an agenda, like Thomas Sowell. Re-branding Naziism has been a long term project of the American Conservative Movement, part of their marketing campaign to associate all that is bad and smelly in life with their political enemies.

Like this *******:

Anything that is posted by our local Movement representatives should be read with that in mind. Actually, it's interesting how you can see popular arguments that are circulated through the Movement distribution chains show up here in our very own MartialTalk. Like the obsession with Alinsky, or the Tides Foundation. No one would even know who or what those are without those arguments being distributed from the top of the Movement. The flow of information would make a very interesting modeling project, it's almost biological in nature. Fascinating, really.

 

[Josh Oakley]

Josh, you aren't understanding what I'm saying...we have, me and many others tried discussing this left/right issue with Billcihak in as many dimensions as we can but it simply doesn't work, it goes back to being left is bad, right is good, until he fleshes out his theories we can go no further and as I said it's wearying to try and discuss things just to have Ann Coulter chucked at you. this is one the argumetns are one dimensional, we can't break out of the credo Billcihak lives by, it's his mantra... lefties are bad, nasty and violent, the right are calm, peaceful and productive, yes he said that so how exactly do you suggest discussing the subject with any depth when this is what you get. I'm tired of posting about this, I only did on this thread because I find the French National Front a dangerous and nasty affront to decent humans, I don't care what economic policies makes them left or right, it's their other policies that worry me.Billcihak that 'one' professor' was the peer world accepted expert on Nazi Germany and German history with pages of credits and qualifications from the best universities in the word, you said he was brainwashed by the left so what did you expect me to post after that. Trying to have a serious discussion with you is like trying to nail ice cream to the wall. As for Nobel prize winners well Obama is one isn't he, does that make him acceptable in your eyes or are you still hating him?

I give up. Even when you're talking to me, you are really talking to Bill. This whole discussion with you has been a waste of my time. At least when I talk to billcihak, though we often disagree vehemently on many things, and I find his research methods to be seriously flawed, when he responds to me, he responds to ME. I have no intention on being treated as a springboard. Therefore I am done talking to you.

 

[Tez3]

I really don't believe that having a PhD is an indicator of gravitas in any subject. They are relatively easy to gain, don't actually have to be too factual because the student has to write a thesis ( otherwise their own theory) of their subject, they don't have to be agreed with they just have to be a reasonable argument. You can buy one off the internet if you wish not to do your own work. Economics, political and social sciences are often opinion led, if you work hard to present your hypothesis you will gain your PhD. It's in the presentation, the working out if you like of your theory that you earns you the PhD, not necessarily the views you hold. There are plenty of people who will disagree with you and may prove you wrongeven the people examining you.
http://mi.eng.cam.ac.uk/~cipolla/phdguide.htm

"To achieve the PhD degree it is necessary to demonstrate that you have mastered the skills necessary to carry out research to professional standards. The point of the PhD is not to demonstrate your brilliance (although this might also occur), but to demonstrate that you have mastered a set of research skills."

This is the point of a PhD, it doesn't mean what you have to say in a subject like economics or politial science is necessarily the correct and only theory, only that you can theorise and articulate it.

 

[Empty Hands]

I really don't believe that having a PhD is an indicator of gravitas in any subject. They are relatively easy to gain, don't actually have to be too factual because the student has to write a thesis ( otherwise their own theory) of their subject, they don't have to be agreed with they just have to be a reasonable argument.

I just died a little inside. OK, a lot. I'm going to go to my room and cry over my wasted life.

 

[Tez3]

I give up. Even when you're talking to me, you are really talking to Bill. This whole discussion with you has been a waste of my time. At least when I talk to billcihak, though we often disagree vehemently on many things, and I find his research methods to be seriously flawed, when he responds to me, he responds to ME. I have no intention on being treated as a springboard. Therefore I am done talking to you.

Good, I'm pleased because this thread was started by BillC, I answered him and you jumped in to lecture me, you haven't understood a word I've written, I've tried to clearly explain to you why I, Sukerkin and a lot of other people don't want to get into these discussions anymore. I wasn't talking to BillC, I was talking to you however like him you have seen my words and found a whole different meaning in them, I'm not responsible for that, you are.

 

[Josh Oakley]

Amazing. Abject disagreement with the pair of you being reframed as a lack of understanding. Well whatever. Shalom, and good riddence.

 

[billc]

So are you saying this history guy you keep throwing out as a source didn't really earn his PH.D.? Besides, the guys I list have long work histories and have distinguished themselves in their respective fields. You can disagree, that is the nature of pursuing knowledge, but these guys aren't fly by night guys either.