The Facts about Spanking - Science shows...

[Makalakumu]

This video shows some of the most recent scientific studies regarding spanking. As martial artists many of us teach to use force as an absolute last resort, yet children are regularly beaten without any other options being explored. Think about how spanking affects our lives and our society based on this research. Is it worth it?

 

[granfire]

Well, I got 2 of the 4 spankings in my life because I was engaging in dangerous behavior and did not listen...then I hurt myself.
After my mother bandaged my heavily bleeding wound she spanked my bottom. (the second spanking in this context was actually unfair, as she removed the bandage the gauze was stuck to the wound and it hurt, so I cried....)

I was maybe 4 at the time. (Oh, I was playing with a rug making tool that had a razor blade in it...sliced the top of my left middle finger nail off - wanna see? - it's healed but I have the hint of a scar under the nail)

There is a difference between spanking and beating IMHO. At an age when reasoning does not work, a pop on the bottom seems to be an effective way to redirect the attention.

At an older age...I guess we can argue about that.

Personally, I much prefer spanking over 'time out' , which to me is close to psychological abuse.
Then again, not every child responds the same way.
One kid is fine with time-out, not phased at all, another is in fits.

I guess the main problem is, how is the punishment administered. In anger and excessive? Or pop and done?

I find it interesting to read the results of this study, but I wonder how they picked their test subjects and how do you do a 'double blind' in a case like this.
Do the non spankers really never raise a hand, are the spankers really this evil?

 

[Makalakumu]

The video is 17 minutes long and cites all kinds of research into the effects of spanking. In the end, it's like smoking, it may not kill you, but it increases your chances of experiencing the negative effects. Some people can get spanked and not have it adversely affect them. On average though, if you are spanked, you will be adversely affected by that experience.

 

[Balrog]

This video shows some of the most recent scientific studies regarding spanking. As martial artists many of us teach to use force as an absolute last resort, yet children are regularly beaten without any other options being explored. Think about how spanking affects our lives and our society based on this research. Is it worth it?

Spanking is not beating.

Spanking is a very viable means of discipline. It should be used as a final resort and should be pitched as a direct consequence of the child's actions. Believe me, even a four year old will understand that.

 

[Stealthy]

After my mother bandaged my heavily bleeding wound she spanked my bottom.

I always got my spankings before the bandages. Once I was standing there with blood pissing out everywhere and my finger hanging by a thread while copping a flogging with the wooden spoon.

 

[granfire]

I always got my spankings before the bandages. Once I was standing there with blood pissing out everywhere and my finger hanging by a thread while copping a flogging with the wooden spoon.

I bled too much....

 

[Makalakumu]

Spanking is not beating.

Spanking is a very viable means of discipline. It should be used as a final resort and should be pitched as a direct consequence of the child's actions. Believe me, even a four year old will understand that.

How is spanking not beating? If I slapped an adult once, good and hard, to teach them a lesson, what would the law say about that?

If spanking is the last resort, what steps are taken before physical force is administered? Do all parents who spank follow those steps?

 

[granfire]

I find it somewhat interesting though, considering that we see a lot of people growing up with the symptoms of 'your momma didn't beat you enough'

 

[Nomad]

This video shows some of the most recent scientific studies regarding spanking. As martial artists many of us teach to use force as an absolute last resort, yet children are regularly beaten without any other options being explored. Think about how spanking affects our lives and our society based on this research. Is it worth it?

As a parent, I think it's a tough call. I don't like the idea of spanking a child, but recognize that occasionally (and by occasionally, I mean really infrequently), it can be a viable way to show the consequences of bad decisions that likely put themselves or someone else in danger. In other words, it can get their attention in a way that a time out (or other punishment technique) won't.

I've met many kids who have never had boundaries set or enforced, and they tend to run roughshod over their parents and have WAY bigger problems ahead of them (many of which will be a direct result of the parents not setting and enforcing boundaries from an early age).

I think saying "never spank a child" takes a sometimes necessary tool away from parents, and I've yet to see an alternative method of disciplining a kid that takes the place of this.

I wholeheartedly agree with Balrog that a "spanking" and a beating are two entirely different things, and there's no excuse, ever, for the latter. If used excessively spanking can certainly cross over into abuse, and leave lasting scars. I think it's a very difficult issue, and much depends on the personalities and traits of both the parent and the child.

 

[Nomad]

How is spanking not beating? If I slapped an adult once, good and hard, to teach them a lesson, what would the law say about that?

If spanking is the last resort, what steps are taken before physical force is administered? Do all parents who spank follow those steps?

IMO (and yes, it's my opinion... obviously not everyone thinks the same way), a spanking is not about hurting the other person, while a beating is. A spanking causes some humiliation (one reason I would not do it in public is because I don't think it's necessary to emphasize this) and gets their attention when other methods fail.

Obviously, not all parents follow the same steps, which is why this has always been a controversial topic, as the term "spanking" means different things to different people, from a light swat on the butt to a full beating that leaves lasting marks.

As an example, when my daughter was in preschool, she did get a spanking after the second (and last) time she bit another child (hard enough to leave marks, but not breaking the skin). The first time was her big sister, and we told her why it was wrong, made her apologize and gave her a time out for several minutes. The second time was within a week of the first. The spanking was administered cooly (not in the heat of anger), and judiciously to make sure there would be no marks left or actual harm caused, but hard enough to get her attention and let her know we were really upset with her (From memory, ~3 moderate swats). The spanking was also accompanied by a longer talk, and we followed through by having her write a letter of apology to the person she bit.

I cannot and will not speak for all parents; I'll just try to raise my children in the best way possible. So far, I think I'm doing a pretty good job.

 

[Twin Fist]

i disagree 100%

beating is bad, no question

spanking is a valuable and needed tool for parents to teach thier kids discipline.

 

[MA-Caver]

My father was the disciplinarian in our family. My mother would recount my misdeeds to him when he arrived home from work and left to him to decide mode of punishment... after discussing with my mother what was appropriate. Yeah he spanked me up til the time I was of about 12. The last time was when I had played around with a guest's 67 impala convertible and the roof got stuck mid-way up. I got ten licks with the belt. I learned then never to touch what wasn't mine... a life long lesson.
Teachers in school paddled us for screwing around in class and always after a warning (or two), then it was out in the hall with another teacher present (c-y-a) and the smack of wood on denim could be heard clearly, telling us all that such behavior will not be tolerated. They were few and far between in my school. None of my class-mates I recall, ever reading about them growing up and climbing a tower and sniping at people with a high-powered rifle.
I speculate that those who got up in arms when their child was spanked fell back upon old, bitter resentments of "unfair punishments" administered by adults who had (at the time) proper authority to do so. They grew up to become the lawyers who took a client's grievance to the hilt and threatened lawsuits against the school system and changed the paddling rule. Thus molly-coddling their children when-ever they misbehaved in school. Though sometimes people did get carried away but it was that particular individual that should've been themselves disciplined, not the entire system. Way back when, if the situation warranted, my parents (usually my father alone) would come to the school to discuss the seriousness of my "crime/rule-breaking/insubordination/whatever!" and while he would argue against suspension he didn't complain a whit about the paddling I got.

There is indeed a fine line between discipline and abuse. Spanking/paddling on the glutenous maxims would only sting at best but it got the message across that "hey, you screwed up/broke the rules/didn't obey" and it'll happen again if you do it again until you learn not to. Spanking/paddling til there's blood or bruising or excessive amounts (no more than 10 I think is fair) of strokes/hits, striking the face/head or other vulnerable spots on the body is abuse. To do so also in anger for no other reason than the child was merely being a mild annoyance (shouting during playing after being told to be quiet) is abuse but marginally. Some girls told me that the worse that their mothers have done is smack them resoundingly across the face and only once... reasons varied from smart-assed remarks to calling the mother a ***** out of spite.


It's a fine line and a good parent should know where it is and maintain discipline upon themselves when administering it.

 

[Makalakumu]

Spanking is the administering of physical force to get an individual to do what you want. It is the very definition of a coercive beating.

If an adult uses physical force against another individual to get them to do what they want, that is considered a crime. If an adult does this to a child, it is considered discipline. Think about the hypocrisy of that standard for a minute. We can use coercive beatings against the most powerless individuals in our society, but we cannot do this once we pass some arbitrary age standard. Technically, I could beat my 17 year old son for not doing his homework until his 18th birthday, at which time he could call the police and have me arrested. Why can't we extend human rights to our children?

Also, if spanking is a last resort, what steps precede it's administration? If the steps are arbitrary, spanking truly is nothing more then coercive beating. There is no philosophic rationale behind it.

Lastly, many of us who were beaten as children don't want to admit this was abuse. Maybe we want to protect our parents. Maybe we need to justify our own actions in copying our parents. The studies on violence are clear, however, it begets more violence. This violence acts its way out in our society in a lot of different ways.

If a non-violent solution exists to solve problems, why do we choose violent ones? Ever wonder if that is the result of childhood beatings?

If it's possible to raise your kids without beatings, why beat them at all? Yet people choose violence again and again and again.

 

[Makalakumu]

i disagree 100%

beating is bad, no question

spanking is a valuable and needed tool for parents to teach thier kids discipline.

Can you teach discipline without the use of force?

 

[Thesemindz]

Can you teach discipline without the use of force?

I'm with you Makalakumu. Imagine if someone six times your size picked you up off the street and beat you while you struggled to break free. It's a terrifying image that most people don't even consider before smacking a child. It isn't discipline, it's laziness. It's beating instead of teaching. It's abuse, and it's not ok. Period.

And it doesn't matter if the kid is unable to comprehend logical prohibitions on behavior. Neither can some retarded adults, but I'm not justified in beating them in the streets because they violate social norms. It's simple, dumb, violence. And it's not acceptable.

The reason people support it is because they don't want to admit that they were beaten by their parents, who may have genuinely loved them. But admitting that your parents, who were no doubt untrained amateurs when it comes to parenting, may have abused you out of ignorance doesn't invalidate the very real love they may also have had for you or the fact that you made something out of yourself. And saying that "I was a bad kid who had it coming" isn't a justification either. Kids are blank slates. What makes them bad to begin with? Bad parenting. Doubling down on bad parenting by adding abuse to "fix" your earlier mistakes as a role model doesn't make it ok. It's just more bad parenting.

I used to be on the other side of this issue. But once I realized that children are people too I realized that using violence to coerce their behavior, except in self defense, is completely unacceptable. It doesn't matter that they are young and dumb and their concepts of personhood and private property are not fully formed. If those were the criteria that justified violence we'd be welcome to pop half the people we run in to day to day. But we're not, because being ignorant doesn't give other people the right to beat on you.

Unless of course you're smaller than they are.


-Rob

 

[David43515]

Food for thought.

 

[Sukerkin]

If it's possible to raise your kids without beatings, why beat them at all?

Aye, that's true. There are those who understand the rules and comply with them early on without any need for physical correction. But there are many more that don't.

Likewise, there are those parents who find it hard to discover the boundary between enforcing discipline and obtaining obedience and going too far.

As with anything there is no simple answer, other than that prohibiting corporal punishment is not the sensible route when it is the only comprehensively effective method of raising young humans so that they, eventually, become reasoning and functional members of our society.

The argument that you wouldn't do such a thing to an adult doesn't hold water but I shall not even attempt to show why it is wrong as it is far to early in the morning for me and I am not likely to express myself well.

 

[Sukerkin]

But once I realized that children are people too

And therein lies the misconception that causes the whole problem.

 

[Thesemindz]

And therein lies the misconception that causes the whole problem.

Meaning you don't believe that children are people too?


-Rob

 

[cdunn]

Speaking as someone who has endured both true, outright beatings, with the sole intent to inflict harm for amusement, and 'spankings', there can be a difference. I certainly recognized that at the time. But, honestly, while beatings are wrong, and spankings may, or may not, be excessively violent coercion, I have a sneaking suspicion that the nature of the particular punishment/coercion, be it spankings, 'time-out', etc, etc, has very little to do with the end result, and much, much more to go with the way that the punishment is administered.

If the child understands before he 'misbehaves' that the punishment will be the consequence of his actions, it actually is the consequence for his actions, in the future, it always is the consequence for his actions as immediately as possible, it is administered with dispassion, and it does not exceed the child's ability to understand that this is a punishment, then it will start to instill 'correct' behavior in the child. Break off from any of these, and you end up with a spoiled, broken, or vengeful human being. Most 'bad parents' can't seem to manage to walk the line, but it is amazing when someone does it right.