That's just not how it works in real life.

Kung Fu Wang

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What he meant is what the OP is referring to: the fact that you will most likely never execute a string of techniques the way you do in class in a predetermined drill, with no resistance.
IMO, to train just "a string of techniques" is not enough. You will need to train "many strings of techniques".

When you kick, your opponent can

- block with his arm,
- block with his leg,
- move away.

There are 3 possible ways that your opponent may respond. You have to train all 3 outcomes from your opponent's respond.
 

lklawson

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Speaking of my claims about the benefits of Visualization, here's an article from Psychology Today supporting my claims. It also includes a reference to another study which showed participants gaining 13% muscle mass from merely imagining themselves lifting weights! :eek:

Seeing Is Believing: The Power of Visualization

The application is that you can totally use your imagination to get better at martial arts.


Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

jobo

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Agree. If you

- push on your opponent's chest, most of the time he will push back on you.
- punch your opponent, most of the time he will punch you back.
- kick your opponent, even if he doesn't know how to kick, he may still kick back at you just to prove that he can kick too.
- ...
yes the push response but more than that, if someone is walking towards you with their fist clenched, then its odds on that they intend to punch you and its a70% chance its a right.

if their hands are open then they intend to grab or head but you .

if they are running at you then its odds on they are coming in foot first or they are going to try and tackle you to the ground
 

Touch Of Death

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Agree. If you

- push on your opponent's chest, most of the time he will push back on you.
- punch your opponent, most of the time he will punch you back.
- kick your opponent, even if he doesn't know how to kick, he may still kick back at you just to prove that he can kick too.
- ...
Round here, it escalates much faster. o_O
 

drop bear

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I was first going to place this in the WC forum, but it isn't a problem specific to that. Then, I was going to place it in CMM, but it isn't really specific to any one style..

This is something I see a lot in discussions around here, but not just here, pretty much whenever the subject is broached. It generally reads something like..

If my opponent does X I would just do Y, Z, a spinning G, two Fs and a C..fight over. It's like an imaginary Van Damm movie is playing out in their head and spilling into a post.

It's BS. That's just not how it works in real life. You can prepare yourself to the best of you ability, but you'll never know how you will react to a given situation until you experience said situation. It will rarely, if ever, happen according to any script, and this is especially true in a heated situation on the cusp of, or in the midst of, real combat. At that point the choreographer will be notably absent.

Which is why at the start of a demo we get. "This is a combination that has worked for me" Rather than a combination that will get pulled off every time by every guy.

As we progress we move from fixed combos to ajusted combos depending on what the other guy does.
 
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Martial D

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1. Kick low, punch high - if you kick your opponent's groin, 90% chance that his face will be open for your punch.
2. Attack right then attack left - if you punch at your opponent's right shoulder, most of the time he will expose his left shoulder to you.
3. If you want push, you pull first - if you pull, 40% of chance that your opponent will resist. also 40% chance that he will yield.
4. Let your opponent to decide whether he want to escape, or resist - if you sweep your opponent's leg, 50% chance that he will lift up his leg. 50% chance that he will turn his shin bone to against you.
- ...

IMO, the more knowledge that you can "predict" your opponent's respond, the better chance that you can win that fight.
This is a fairly decent example. Where do you get those numbers? Who is this hypothetical 'he' that is so predictable? I surely haven't met him.
 
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Martial D

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This is a fairly decent example. Where do you get those numbers? Who is this hypothetical 'he' that is so predictable? I surely haven't met him.
As for the rest of you talking about repetition and conditioning responses..I totally agree. Getting this edge is why we train, right? Why we spend hours repeating one punch or one kick? At least for me.

But let's keep it real...it's an edge, not a superpower.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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This is a fairly decent example. Where do you get those numbers? Who is this hypothetical 'he' that is so predictable? I surely haven't met him.
Every semester, during the 1st day of my UT Austin informal Kung Fu class, I told my 50 new students that I'll use "single leg" to take them down. I then tested on each and every new student. When I pulled them, almost 100% of the time they will resist. At the end of that semester, when I pulled them, 50% of the time they will resists, and 50% of the time they will yield. When the next semester begin, the same pattern will repeat all over again.

This tell me one thing. Beginners are very "honest". They only know how to use force to fight against force. After they have developed some experience, they start to understand how to "borrow their opponent's force". In other words, the ability to be able to borrow opponent's force will need some MA training. Beginners don't have that.

To be able to "predict" that most people will use force against force can give you some advantage.
 
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jobo

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As for the rest of you talking about repetition and conditioning responses..I totally agree. Getting this edge is why we train, right? Why we spend hours repeating one punch or one kick? At least for me.

But let's keep it real...it's an edge, not a superpower.
it can be close to that. The martial arts myth, is thats technique can overcome significant physical disadvantages. Or the best way to win a fight to to be stronger faster, more agile, better balanced with better cardio than your oppoinent. And be good a martial art. Or fight drunks when your sober, that always,funny. You should always be faster and better balanced than a drunk,
 
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Martial D

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Which is why at the start of a demo we get. "This is a combination that has worked for me" Rather than a combination that will get pulled off every time by every guy.

As we progress we move from fixed combos to ajusted combos depending on what the other guy does.
Combos are a different matter. You launch combos when you see openings, realizing they might not all land. If you said "I would throw a jab then when their head snaps back I'd throw a cross-hook-uppercut then step in diagonally and finish him with a roundhouse kick", then that would be what I am getting at.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Combos are a different matter. You launch combos when you see openings, realizing they might not all land. If you said "I would throw a jab then when their head snaps back I'd throw a cross-hook-uppercut then step in diagonally and finish him with a roundhouse kick", then that would be what I am getting at.
I think you have just reversed these 2 cases.

1. Combo is pre-defined attack sequence. You decide that combo sequence and not your opponent.
2. Attack whatever is open for you. You punch, your opponent blocks, he opens up another area, you then attack that new open area. Your opponent decides where he will open up and not you.

Anybody has done enough combo drill can execute that combo. Only people with good "listen ability" will be able to recognize the opportunity and catch that opportunity.

In the following clip, did he use "combo", or did he just attack whatever is open for him? IMO, he is doing 2 not 1.

FedorSylviaGif3.gif
 
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Gerry Seymour

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Turns out that the human brain can't actually tell the difference between adrenal dump as a result of military combat, self defense, or even high-stress competitive "stage fright."

To the brain, adrenal dump is adrenal dump and it turns off the thinking fore-brain and turns on Robo Droid. Robo Droid just follows his programming. Whatever that programming may be.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Agreed. The stress reactions are mostly misapplications of the chemical processes designed for fight/flight. Mild to moderate stress is a preparatory threat-detection state, while extreme stress (and transitions to anger) are further along the spectrum, including that adrenal dump you mention.
 

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Combos are a different matter. You launch combos when you see openings, realizing they might not all land. If you said "I would throw a jab then when their head snaps back I'd throw a cross-hook-uppercut then step in diagonally and finish him with a roundhouse kick", then that would be what I am getting at.
Um, that's still a combination. The only difference is whether you absolutely believe you'll connect in that exact sequence or not. Nobody who trains with any resistance will have that belief. They'll know some of the odds, and be able to predict at better than chance, but they'll be ready for things to not follow the sequence, too.
 

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Speaking of my claims about the benefits of Visualization, here's an article from Psychology Today supporting my claims. It also includes a reference to another study which showed participants gaining 13% muscle mass from merely imagining themselves lifting weights! :eek:

Seeing Is Believing: The Power of Visualization

The application is that you can totally use your imagination to get better at martial arts.


Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
There's an older study (mid-90's, I think) that showed people developing improved athletic skill (I've forgotten the task) from visualization at about 60% the rate of people physically practicing the skill, over a 6-week period. That's a hell of a gain without the need for recovery.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Which is why at the start of a demo we get. "This is a combination that has worked for me" Rather than a combination that will get pulled off every time by every guy.

As we progress we move from fixed combos to ajusted combos depending on what the other guy does.
This. Every "technique" we learn is a set of movements. A simple single-leg takedown isn't a single move, but an entry, a setup, and a takedown. At any point in that sequence, the other guy can change the circumstance, and we simply adjust to something that fits the new circumstance. That adjustment may mean an entirely different sequence, or it may simply replace one part (different set-up, perhaps), and still lead to the same end point.
 

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As for the rest of you talking about repetition and conditioning responses..I totally agree. Getting this edge is why we train, right? Why we spend hours repeating one punch or one kick? At least for me.

But let's keep it real...it's an edge, not a superpower.
Nobody has claimed it to be a superpower, that I've seen.
 
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Martial D

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I think you have just reversed these 2 cases.

1. Combo is pre-defined attack sequence. You decide that combo sequence and not your opponent.
2. Attack whatever is open for you. You punch, your opponent blocks, he opens up another area, you then attack that new open area. Your opponent decides where he will open up and not you.

Anybody has done enough combo drill can execute that combo. Only people with good "listen ability" will be able to recognize the opportunity and catch that opportunity.

In the following clip, did he use "combo", or did he just attack whatever is open for him? IMO, he is doing 2 not 1.

FedorSylviaGif3.gif
The 1 2 was a planned combo, the rest just pocket brawling.
 

drop bear

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Combos are a different matter. You launch combos when you see openings, realizing they might not all land. If you said "I would throw a jab then when their head snaps back I'd throw a cross-hook-uppercut then step in diagonally and finish him with a roundhouse kick", then that would be what I am getting at.

There was a demo that went full retard on that. Called it the science of something and pretended they could then predict the future.

Scars mabye?

I will have a look.
 

lklawson

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There's an older study (mid-90's, I think) that showed people developing improved athletic skill (I've forgotten the task) from visualization at about 60% the rate of people physically practicing the skill, over a 6-week period. That's a hell of a gain without the need for recovery.
That was probably the Basketball Free Throws study. It's mentioned in the Psychology Today article but basically, they had 3 groups. A group that practiced free throws, one that just imagined practicing free throws, and a control that did neither. While the group that actually practiced improved the most, the imagination group improved significantly as well. Control, of course, showed no improvement.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
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Martial D

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I anxiously await the emergence of a pro athlete or fighter that has got to where he has by sitting and visualizing. I agree it doesn't hurt, but you just won't get the physiological conditioning, nor is anything you visualize likely to reflect a reality you haven't actually experienced.
 

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