Telegraphing

Nabakatsu

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Hello, I've noticed tonight in class that I seem to be telegraphing when i'm about to hit very obviously, what are some good ways to improve my ability to not telegraph my opening strikes?

Thanks in advance!
 

mook jong man

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Have a look through some of my old posts I think I have probably touched on this before mate.
But just quickly where abouts is the telegraph ?

Is it when you are stepping in to strike. ?
Means you are probably leaning forward slightly before you step in.
REMEDY: Don't lean , get in front of mirror at an angle , look at yourself as you step in , make sure there is no pre-movement ie leaning , stay bolt upright. Rinse and repeat.

Is the telegraph in your strike itself.?
Means you are probably drawing back slightly before you strike.
REMEDY: Get in front of mirror as before and watch your elbow as you punch , look for the slightest drawing back of the elbow .

REMEDY 2: Get a partner to hold a focus mitt for you to punch. Your partner with his spare hand will place his fingers around the elbow of your striking arm. As you punch your partner will tell you whether he can detect any backwards pressure at all on his fingers. There should be no backwards pressure.

Visualisation: Imagine that your partners fingers are the launch pad and your elbow is rocket propelled , your rocket engine can only propel your arm forward , no reverse thrust.
 

yak sao

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And your telegraphing may not even be technical, you may be giving it away with your change of facial expression.
Last night at class I was having students hold a kick shield against their chest while their partner came in wailing on the pad with heavy chain punches.
One thing I had them concentrating on was keeping a stoic expression, both the person holding the pad and the person throwing the punches.
 

mook jong man

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And your telegraphing may not even be technical, you may be giving it away with your change of facial expression.
Last night at class I was having students hold a kick shield against their chest while their partner came in wailing on the pad with heavy chain punches.
One thing I had them concentrating on was keeping a stoic expression, both the person holding the pad and the person throwing the punches.

Thats a very good point Yak sao , it is crucial to keep a poker face.
Some people just before they attack , you will see they're eyelids start to slightly narrow.
 

girlbug2

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I don't know what it is about me, but when I throw rapid continuous punches on the heavy bag my elbows start drifting upwards. It's a bad habit my instructor has been getting on me about lately. Sometimes I think I can hear it in my sleep:"Elbows down Andrea!"

Finally the other day he explained that elbows up will telegraph a punch because they're easier to see coming. That little lightbulb in my head finally clicked on.:idea:
 

mook jong man

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I don't know what it is about me, but when I throw rapid continuous punches on the heavy bag my elbows start drifting upwards. It's a bad habit my instructor has been getting on me about lately. Sometimes I think I can hear it in my sleep:"Elbows down Andrea!"

Finally the other day he explained that elbows up will telegraph a punch because they're easier to see coming. That little lightbulb in my head finally clicked on.:idea:
Stand hard up against a wall in a side on position and throw your punches from there.
The surface of the wall will help keep you conscious of your elbow position and stop them flaring out.
Make sure you do both sides .
 
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Nabakatsu

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Thanks for your relevant and good suggestions guys!
my elbows start getting a little sloppy eventually, my eyes don't narrow, tho I
have noticed that behavior in quite a few folks, kinda disturbed me at first, my main issue is I lean a little bit before I step, I want my center of balance slightly ahead of me before I step, so it can be that much faster, I lean with the top of my body, and my front foot (which has no weight on it in my lineage) will start to drift forward a little bit too. I'll try practicing in front of a mirror, thanks much guys! n gal ;)
 

Touch Of Death

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Hello, I've noticed tonight in class that I seem to be telegraphing when i'm about to hit very obviously, what are some good ways to improve my ability to not telegraph my opening strikes?

Thanks in advance!
Try to make all your moves the same. What are you doing differently when you forward bow (reverse punch), step through, switching in place, or kicking. Are you doing something different with your knee? ( I found out I was last night).
Sean
 

Domino

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Alot has already been said, remember your structure, like what you said about staying upright,
sometimes this is because we think the power comes from the arm,
yes it must be strong but also rear leg, 70/30, and our middle comes into this moving forward.
 

Touch Of Death

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Alot has already been said, remember your structure, like what you said about staying upright,
sometimes this is because we think the power comes from the arm,
yes it must be strong but also rear leg, 70/30, and our middle comes into this moving forward.
Forgive my ignorance but what advantages does 70/30 have over say 60/40(what we do) in your opinion?
Sean
 

geezer

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Forgive my ignorance but what advantages does 70/30 have over say 60/40(what we do) in your opinion?
Sean

A 60/40 or 70/30 stance? Seriously, unless you train with your feet on a pair of scales, or maybe while playing Wii-fit, I doubt if most people could tell the difference. The important thing is that both are essentially a partially back-weighted stance.

Now there is a noticeable difference between this partially back-weighted stance (which I call a 2/3-1/3 stance) and a 50/50 stance as used by some branches. And also a noticeable difference between all of these and the fully back-weighted WT stance with 100% weight on the rear foot, and "springy" pressure on the front.

Getting back to the topic of "telegraphing" one of the advantages of WT's fully back-weighted stance is that it is non-telegraphic, as there is no weight shift or trunk movement when you lift the front leg to kick. It is also less vulnerable to front-leg sweeps. The drawback is that it is harder to learn mobility in this position.
 

matsu

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this is agreat thread already.-ive beeen told i telegraph when i am doing lok sau and single chi sau-mostly by tensing up in prep to strike!
mook, heres a massive email hug.... sometimes you just hit the nail on the head with your insight and you always have a way to make it easy to understand
so big fanx
matsu
 

mook jong man

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this is agreat thread already.-ive beeen told i telegraph when i am doing lok sau and single chi sau-mostly by tensing up in prep to strike!
mook, heres a massive email hug.... sometimes you just hit the nail on the head with your insight and you always have a way to make it easy to understand
so big fanx
matsu

Thanks champ , although I think I'll pass on the hug , the wife might start to think I'm batting for the other team .
Not that there's anything wrong with that . :)
What about just a firm manly electronic handshake instead. lol

Now , you said that you telegraph by tensing when you are preparing to strike in single and double sticking hands. You are not Robinson Crusoe in this mate , its a phase most people go through in the early stages of chi sau training.

In an effort to try and get their strike through their partners defences they will try and use speed . But because they have not developed a relaxed flow of constant forward force and the proper coordination, what happens is that just before they strike their muscles will tense up and there will be a slight hesitation.

Of course this makes the partner think " Hello , somethings about to happen and he is able to redirect the strike quite easily.
This problem will also raise its ugly head later on when you start learning the various trapping techniques and try to apply them in chi sau.

Fortunately we can eliminate or at least reduce this habit , but it takes time and patience , it is harder than learning not to draw your arm back before striking , but it is by no means insurmountable .
It is just your chi sau exercises done in a slightly different way.

SINGLE CHI SAU
Do your single arm chi sau with your partner as per usual.
But I wan't you to do it at a much , much slower speed.

When you do your palm strike from the Tan Sau I want you to do the strike at exactly the same speed that you are rolling at.
You should be rolling slowly so do the palm strike slowly.

Think of a constant relaxed forward force from the elbow and a constant flow of movement , no hesitating , no tension.
Then swap roles.
Do both arms.

DOUBLE CHI SAU
In double sticking hands we will pretty much follow the same procedure as above , by that I mean very , very slow rolling.

But this time your partner will also be attacking from his Tan Sau as well , incidentally this drill is also good for people having trouble defending against the palm strike with their Fook Sau as it helps with their wrist positioning.

Start rolling with your partner as per usual , except you are both going to roll very , very slowly, nice and relaxed.
When you roll into Tan Sau execute your palm strike , do the palm strike at the exact same slow speed you are rolling at.

Then roll up into Bong sau.
As your partner turns into Tan Sau on his other arm he then does the palm strike at the same slow speed , and you defend.
Keep going back and forth like this attack , defend , attack , defend and so on at very slow speed.

To simplify it , when you roll to Tan sau , you attack with a palm strike and when he rolls to Tan sau on his other arm he attacks with the palm strike , you have a turn and then he has a turn and so on.
Make sure both arms get equal time at Tan and Fook.

It is important to do the attack at the same slow speed you are rolling at , no hesitation , no tension , just flowing from one move to the next.

Keep a constant flow of even relaxed forward force in both arms , some people when they strike , they will increase the force in the other arm or let it off completely .
This is also telegraphing , keep the force in both arms even all the time.

Keep doing your single and double sticking hands like this for a couple of sessions . If you can execute your attacks at this slow speed without telegraphing (ask partner for feedback) then it is time to increase your rolling speed to the next level.

Just take your rolling speed up a gear , and the same as before , do the attack at the same speed as what you are rolling at. As your skill increases , and you can roll faster and faster , doing attacks without telegraphing , then try to apply it in chi sau sparring.

People who are at the level of trapping can use the same method , except they will be executing their traps at the same speed as their slow rolling.

This training progression results in you being able to do attacks and trapping without hesitation and without warning to the opponent at high speed and with precision.
 

matsu

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(IN DEEP GRUFF VOICE)
"thanks dude,please accept my gratitude electronically0
lol
thats awesome! i will try that
the prob i have now is finding a regular training partner that i can work with outside of clas to practise and perfect these things- almsot every class we do has a diff element or emphasis and we go back to stuff regularly but i have forgotten the finer points by that time and seem to have to relearn for big% of the class.and so it goes on!!

but this forum mkes a big difference at certain pivotal points in my training!!
thanks mook........... and everyone who has contributed to my flapping and treading water/drowning this past year!
matsu
 

mook jong man

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Yeah tell me about , it sure is hard to get training partners or people that really want to learn .
One of the neighbours friends heard me training in my backyard , and poked his head over the fence . He's a young bloke , about 17 , he said do you give lessons , I said I can if you want.

So I went around his place at the agreed time , we settled on a fee of $30 for 1 and a half hours private lesson , I said I could go cheaper if he couldn't pay that , and he said no it wasn't a problem. I thought it was a pretty good deal considering I drove to his place , with the price of petrol these days , with all my stuff and he was getting a private lesson with a former instructor.

I provided all the equipment focus mitts , kick shield , shin pads etc.
He seemed keen enough , but then after a while he started whingeing about the stance hurting his legs , and then it was my deflections hurting his arms when I was demonstrating to him how to stop a straight punch .

I taught him pretty much the same way as when I taught in the school , accept it was a lot faster because it was only me and him. We finished the lesson with about 300 punches in the air , nothing too brutal , and then he whinged that his arms were tired.

He picked things up really fast , but towards the end of the lesson I started to think this guy hasn't got the ticker ( the heart ) for training.

He said that he enjoyed it and would call me to arrange another lesson , I knew he wouldn't , that was months ago , I'm still waiting for his call.
See a lot of people enjoy the idea of learning how to fight , and learning a martial art.

But when they see that it takes a lot of hard work , a lot of sweat and enduring a bit of pain then suddenly they aren't so keen on the idea anymore.
 
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Nabakatsu

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What a lucky fella! 30 bucks a private lesson, man, I'd be selling blood and semen so fast to keep up... I mean.. yeah.. I would be quite keen on getting in on such high quality practice for such an amazing price, I have yet to find a training partner outside of class myself, and now i'm moving to the middle of nowhere.. staying in shape and practicing what I have remembered is all I will have, hope it's enough!
 

mook jong man

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What a lucky fella! 30 bucks a private lesson, man, I'd be selling blood and semen so fast to keep up... I mean.. yeah.. I would be quite keen on getting in on such high quality practice for such an amazing price, I have yet to find a training partner outside of class myself, and now i'm moving to the middle of nowhere.. staying in shape and practicing what I have remembered is all I will have, hope it's enough!

Yeah well I'm not a greedy person , considering that when I was with the school , it cost $80 an hour for a student to do a private lesson with a 2nd level instructor , but my Sifu got most of that. I have taught people for free in the past , but they were friends who were instructors in other systems.

Thats how I learnt grappling , I taught my friend Wing Chun and he taught me pancrase we just traded skills. But if I'm teaching someone with no experience in anything , then I feel that it is only fair that a small fee is charged because in my time in martial arts I have paid thousands and thousands of dollars to be taught not only in Wing Chun , but Krav Maga seminars , stick / Knife fighting seminars and Kali Illustrisimo instruction.

So I can't teach someone for nothing , but I also believe you shouldn't charge people an exorbitant price either , specially if they are the type of people that are keen and really want to learn , but maybe haven't got the cash to spare . Why should high level martial arts instruction be the preserve of only the rich , they get enough privileges in this society as it is .

The guy just wasn't the type to make a committment to training , he thought it was going to be easy and it wasn't.
Unfortunately in my area most of the young guys would prefer to be holding a beer bottle or a bong rather than a focus mitt.

Not only that but they all seem to be carrying knives these days , even though it is illegal in this country , so they probably think they don't need self defence. Paradoxically it also seems to never enter their mind to get instruction in how to use the knife properly or at least how to defend against the blade.

Carrying a knife on them when they go to parties or clubs , seems to be an instant and convenient fix for them .
Weapons are great , but you should also be instructed in their proper use , and you should also have empty hand training so as to be able to use your bodies natural weapons.
 

mook jong man

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I have yet to find a training partner outside of class myself, and now i'm moving to the middle of nowhere.. staying in shape and practicing what I have remembered is all I will have, hope it's enough!

Oh thats no good , is there no Wing Chun school at all near you ?
when you make some friends in the new town maybe you could teach them , so that you can at least maintain your skills.

Keep a look out for Wing Chun seminars that maybe held in travelling distance to you , save your cash though , they would be pretty expensive. But they're worth it if its someone good and they go all day , you can pick up enough info to keep you going for a year. Make notes so you make the most of it and don't forget anything.

Maybe you could save up some cash to do a couple of private lessons with someone , maybe get some friends to go along to help spread the cost.
Believe me you will find some way to train , people always do once they have caught the bug.
 

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