tapi-tapi experimentation

[arnisandyz]

Tonight I was practicing the basic left on right tapi-tapi drills with my partner and we discovered something. Perhaps someone can tell me if this has already been discovered and/or part of your ciriculum... I'll try to explain it best I can. Typically in left on right tapi-tapi the left hander is the driver, well, we switched it so the right hander is the driver too (still left on right). So all it is, is a mirror image of each other. What this allows is both of you to work on the same drill one after the other taking turns on "driving". It also allows you to switch weapon hands in flow and do the drills on the other side. As simple as it sounds, it really open a whole new door of possiblities. We also explored "taking the wheel"...The left hand does the typical break in with the punyo but instead of passing and hitting back with the punyo (the way the drill is suppose to be done) we just take the stick off the first beat and iniatiate the action (now that we can drive on the right!!). What seemed to happen was were were both thinking of attacking and sometimes they blended into another creating a new sequence. It definately keeps you on the alert. If you've never tried it, give it a shot, it will blow your mind the first time and you'll be wondering what you just did!

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Since Remy started teaching the L vs R I've been driving with both hands. Many people would argue with me on this point. We do everything else both sides why not this.

Many people forgot Remy was a lefty. That's why he made that part of the drill. Since I'm a righty I do the drill right handed first then left.

When I ask people "If your a righty wouldn't you attack me right handed?", they would just look at me with a question mark on thier foreheads and thier mouth wide open.

It's good to see that other people can think for themselves too.

:soapbox: :cheers:

Sorry if anyone thinks this is harsh. If you know me personally you would know that this is a BAD topic for me.

 

[arnisandyz]

Salamat Mr Hartman!!!

We were very happy to find this, and even happier that it works! I don't see how anyone can argue with you the benifits of doing both sides. I myself am a lefty, and I initiated it. Not only does it work my right side, it actually makes the drill come alive and more spontanious as you have no idea who is the agressor.

We also did this empty hand in a wing chun flow (I think they call it bong sao???) your left elbow to partners right elbow and roll and catch backhands and switching to the other side and it worked beatifully!!!

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Originally posted by arnisandyz

Salamat Mr Hartman!!!

We were very happy to find this, and even happier that it works! I don't see how anyone can argue with you the benifits of doing both sides. I myself am a lefty, and I initiated it. Not only does it work my right side, it actually makes the drill come alive and more spontanious as you have no idea who is the agressor.

You know, monkey see, monkey do.

We also did this empty hand in a wing chun flow (I think they call it bong sao???) your left elbow to partners right elbow and roll and catch backhands and switching to the other side and it worked beatifully!!!

Remy did the same drill in the early 80's. Like my friend says "It's all nuts and bolts".

 

[Bob Hubbard]

To me, doing things on both sides makes for tactical sence. Your 'strong' side may be injured or worse, so having the flexibilty to work both just seems "right" to me. no pun intended.

Course, its a bit harder to work the less dominent side, but practice makes perfect (or in my case lowers the brain-fart factor)


:asian:

 

[Cthulhu]

Of course you know, arnisandyz...you guys have to show this to me now

I've been meaning to ask you guys to go over Tapi-Tapi again anyway.

Cthulhu

C-ya Friday (I hope!)

 

[KumaSan]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz

...practice makes perfect...

We like to say "practice makes habit". Only perfect practice makes perfect habits.

So this is what the inside of the Modern Arnis forums looks like...

edit: I can't spell.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Habits are good. I had a conversation today with someone on the effectivness of martial arts training. His comment was in a streetfight, you go back to instinct, and his experience was plain ol "fistfight'n" was what happens. Mine was "I doubt a guy like Chuck Noris, or anyone else who 'lives' it would do that" The idea being its become instinct and habit.

Oh, and I cant spell either.

I recently had the pleasure of watching several Tapi-Tapi drills... or rather 'trying to' as they were moving pretty fast. Was definately educational, to say the least, with a nice amount of aestetics.

:asian:

 

[Guro Harold]

Cool!! I have been reversing the L Vs. R roles for about a year now. Block-Check-Counter and Block-Check-Counter-Counter works well with these combinations as well:

R vs R
L vs L
L vs R
R vs L

Palusut

Yo FCS guys, try the Six Count Drill that Ray teaches left verses right, it makes it very interesting.

Palusut

 

[Mao]

I have also been switching from L to R for some years now. This can be done in a plethora of ways. (do you know what that means Renegade? ) I'm not hiding behind that smile either. This is one way that you can change who the driver is. This is also one place where it sort of becomes less of a drill as it is not an "agreed " upon sequence. It becomes more of a corto range combat. A few ways to do this is during the "box" pattern, during a snake or wrap, after many of the "locks". Its great explore. That's exactly what Remy wanted us to do. When you begin to think like this, outside the box, your growing. GREAT!

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Originally posted by Mao

Its great explore. That's exactly what Remy wanted us to do. When you begin to think like this, outside the box, your growing. GREAT!

To bad more people don't think this way. I remeber too many times other black belts trying to tell me or my students that ONLY the lefty drives. Of course we never paid much attention to those people. Unfortunatly one of them claims to be a grand master now.

:samurai: :flame:

 

[Guro Harold]

Originally posted by Renegade



To bad more people don't think this way. I remeber too many times other black belts trying to tell me or my students that ONLY the lefty drives. Of course we never paid much attention to those people. Unfortunatly one of them claims to be a grand master now.

:samurai: :flame:

Though I have only studied MA for four years, it appears to me that anyone who thinks that only lefties should drive obviously hasn't cane sparred. Heck if I spar a natural lefty with my left hand!!!

 

[arnisandyz]

Something else we've been playing with is double baston 3 and 5 count sombrada box pattern, inserting a lefthand strike in place of the "programmed" right hand. It doesn't mess your partner up too much as it is still the same angle of attack, just a different hand feeding it. You can do either hand pretty much anywhere, but it really gets interesting when you reverse the direction of flow....I love this stuff!!! I am sure others with open minds have tried this as well.

 

[Brian Johns]

Mao and I have been playing with different variations of tapi tapi for awhile and we're always finding new things and new variations of basic tapi tapi patterns. It's better to learn on your own than to be spoon fed tapi tapi techniques from other folks. Obviously, we will all be inspired by other's innovations with respect to tapi tapi and that's the fun part of camps and seminars......to see the latest developments. I have found that the best tapi tapi players are those who have extremely strong fundamentals with regard to body positioning, stances and footwork. Without these elements, your tapi tapi will be crappy crappy. If you have these fundamentals, you'll be happy happy.:fart:

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

WhoopAss.

 

[Mao]

Well,
after spewing all that humor you probably need a napy napy. I know that was sappy sappy.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Oh man...those puns were really nasty-nasty.

 

[Dieter]

Hi,

interesting thread.
The Professor taught Tapi-Tapi in a very systematical manner here in Germany.
He started off with right to right and only at the 2nd or 3dr seminar he starded to teach the left to right. Taking that into account, it is of course nonsense, that only the right hand is driving, as you call it. We call it leading or dominating.

It is of course nice for practice, that you change the driver during the drill, at least for getting both into the exercise, but I disagree, that it really is the idea of the Tapi-Tapi. Just to back this up: Did anybody see, that somebody ever tried or even took the lead of Remy during the Tapi-Tapi? He was always very much in control during the drill. Everybody who ever did it with him knows. I think for him it was about how to control the opponent. If you agree on that, it does not make sense, that you change the driver during the drill, because you are being controlled then.

So we try to execute the techniquews in a way, that you don´t give your partner the chance to take the lead, i.e. we try to dominate him, so he can only follow.
I try to give the following picture: When you are leading, you lead your partner into a room. When you disarm him or make a takedown, so that the Tapi cannot be continued, the room has no doors. But you want the drill to continue, so you give him one possiblility, how he can react to your moove. You open ONE door for him to get out of the room. If there is only one door, you know, which room is the next. This means, that you know which technique he will use as a counter and there you have him in the next room, where you will give him again only one sensible possible answer to your technique.
When you give him many possiblities, i.e. different doors to get to another room, he can choose which one he will take. Then it is much more difficult if not impossible, to keep up the domination.

This of course is the aim and there are other possibilities to practice the Tapi-Tapi, but that is our premium goal.


For anybody who is interested: I have produced a video about the Tapi-Tapi.
Over 90 minutes only Tapi-Tapi, whith many techniques right to right and left to right. I am sure, very interesting and informing for all serious Modern Arnis practitioners who are interested in the Tapi-Tapi.
I can deliver it in german and english, PAL (European TV System) as well as in in NTSC (amercan TV system), so vou can watch and understand it, wherever you live.

If you are interested, just go to my homepage:

http://www.abanico.de

then to the english pages and then click on the Modern Arnis button at the left side. There you can read more about the Tapi-Tapi video, see the cover and all the other Modern Arnis videos I have produced.

If you have any questions, feel free to contact me either here through the forum or at

datu@modern-arnis.de

Best regards from Germany


Datu Dieter Knüttel

 

[Dieter]

Hi,

I have just added a 30 second Tapi-Tapi clip from our Modern Arnis exhibition at the FMA-Festival.
It is 2 MB large and an .mpg file.

If you go to

http://www.abanico.de/html_e/index_e.html

you are straight on the english pages. Then only one click on the Modern Arnis button at the left side and then you find it right below the description of the Tapi-Tapi video.

I hope you enjoy it and I would appreciate comments what you think of it.


Best regards from Germany

Datu Dieter Knüttel

 

[arnisandyz]

Originally posted by Dieter
It is of course nice for practice, that you change the driver during the drill, at least for getting both into the exercise, but I disagree, that it really is the idea of the Tapi-Tapi. Just to back this up: Did anybody see, that somebody ever tried or even took the lead of Remy during the Tapi-Tapi? He was always very much in control during the drill. Everybody who ever did it with him knows. I think for him it was about how to control the opponent. If you agree on that, it does not make sense, that you change the driver during the drill, because you are being controlled then.


It is one thing for the Proffesor, but not many have his touch. I think trying to steal the lead not only helps the person trying to steal, but also the driver, for if his techniques were correct and he was dominating and leading properly, he would not have lost the lead in the first place. It can also teach what happens when things go wrong, what if they don't go for your bait the way you want them to? what if the flow is lost or what if your planning on grabbing their stick, but they grab yours as well.

In short, I can only hope and wish that i can dominate half as good as the proffessor did, but I would still like to know how to defend should I lose the lead. On the other side (the person not driving) I don't want to be dominated and would like to find openings were the lead can be stolen.

 

[Mao]

I was at a camp where Remy asked another guy to "go hard" with me, without my knowing it until afterword. During this "test" I was trying to change into the drivers spot in a number of ways. Without going into the whole exchange, afterwords I suggested that I was doing the right thing as far as stealing the lead. It was suggested to me that this was not how the game was played. Whoopass andItalkedbout this at the camp and Whoop asked the Prof. how one takes the lead. Remy told him that "you must counter". Of course this can be done in many ways. Changing hands is just one of them, but it is a very viable way to get it done. The idea, in my mind, is NOT to be dominated,so one has to respond in a way to change this. Agreed? So then, we come back to changing hands as being a good thing during non agreed upon sequences, or even agreed upon for that matter. I think it is a matter of what works for you and the position your in and the energy being given.