Taekwondo, waste of time?

[Kung Fu Wang]

But all these years later, my wrestling has served me better than Taekwondo ever has.

When you get older, single leg balance and flexibility can be more important than anything else. At the age of 80, if you can still do this 6 kicks combo:

- roundhouse kick (or inside crescent kick),
- spin hook kick (or outside crescent kick),
- front toes kick,
- front heel kick,
- side kick,
- back kick,

your body will be in excellent shape.

IMO, for maintaining health, kicking can help you more than punching and throwing. You can get better health result from 200 kicks than from 1000 punches.

 

[Earl Weiss]

When you get older, single leg balance and flexibility can be more important than anything else. At the age of 80, if you can still do this 6 kicks combo:

It will be a few years before I can report back on that.

 

[Earl Weiss]

What is the actual Korean word used for this honorific we call "Master," and what is its literal translation? Shades of meaning often change when put into a different language. Does it really just mean "adept, skilled teacher, one who understands," or some other kind of thing?

I can only address the Chang Hon System. A Quick review of the 1965 and 1972 Texts did not reveal the Korean except for Degrees 1-3 = Assistant Instructor which we learned as Boo Sa Bum, 4-6 Instructor - Sa Bum, and 7-9 Master. With he last part of the Syllabus learned at 6th degree. Later texts designated Master as Sa Hyun 7 & 8 and 9- Grandmaster as Sa Seong. These do not translate directly and it would take me while to find that. Yes, you are correct. Agreeing on the meaning is important. Being adept and skilled at some discipline would fit this context although I would add "Knowledgeable"

 

[Earl Weiss]

Was this honorific used prior to the mass export of TKD to the West and if so, did the designated English meaning (as determined by the TKD establishment) change afterwards to help market the art here by implying their rank-and-file instructors were on a higher level than those of other styles?

An interesting question and first we would have to determine which mass export timeline. The first was in the early 1960's and at that time aside from the founder there were no 7th Degree Master Instructors so it was not an issue. That would not have occurred until the late 1960's / early 1970's so it was not much of an issue.
The second wave would have been post 1973-4 Creation of the KKW / WT, so that would be something for a KKW / WT person to address. I can't pin it down but IIRC that at some point KKW lowered the rank for application of the "Master" title.

 

[Balrog]

So, the obvious question (As posited by Forrest Morgan in "Living the Martial Way") is How can you be a "Master" of a system where that system does not yet have you learn all of the system material when that title is applied?

The question is actually meaningless.

"Master" indicates a skill level. I know people who are certified as Master electricians and Master plumbers. They continue to attend training courses and learn new things.

There is ALWAYS something new to learn. If you want to take it a step further, you can say that a Master is a really, really good student.

 

[Earl Weiss]

The question is actually meaningless.

"Master" indicates a skill level. I know people who are certified as Master electricians and Master plumbers. They continue to attend training courses and learn new things.

There is ALWAYS something new to learn. If you want to take it a step further, you can say that a Master is a really, really good student.

Yet if you consider "Master" does not denote perfection or all knowing such Masters including those I know who have known the entire syllabus for decades still attend courses, Yet they are qualified to teach the entire syllabus.

 

[Krisxylove]

Bring a knife (lethal weapon) to a fist fight can have legal consequences. That's why OC spray is often suggested as a non-lethal self-defense weapon as well.

I don't know anything about fighting but anyway I thought fighting martial arts for reals in the streets was silly because weapons. I personally like OC and have a practice water can also. I carry it in the same place and practice getting at it quick. I even got sprayed so that I'm not surprised when I catch it. But I heard that in many European countries even OC is illegal. So you really would have to learn martial arts to be better prepared to defend yourself. Also there are so many occasions when a person doesn't have a weapon or can't have a weapon. So I see the value of knowing how to fight and wrestle and stuff. But still I question if someone is so concerned with practicing a Martial Art solely to defend themself in the streets, why wouldn't they emphasize knife fighting practice?

 

[Dirty Dog]

I don't know anything about fighting but anyway I thought fighting martial arts for reals in the streets was silly because weapons.

Most confrontations do not involve weapons. And you overlook the need to defend yourself while you grab whatever weapon you're going to use.

I personally like OC and have a practice water can also. I carry it in the same place and practice getting at it quick. I even got sprayed so that I'm not surprised when I catch it. But I heard that in many European countries even OC is illegal. So you really would have to learn martial arts to be better prepared to defend yourself. Also there are so many occasions when a person doesn't have a weapon or can't have a weapon.

Not so. I have a couple canes. One is wood, with a slightly more open curve so it can be used as a hook. The other is a metal pipe with a sturdy ornamental wolf head handle. It makes a fine mace. Can you name one place where I wouldn't be able to carry either? Don't have a weapon? That is 100% on you. Can't have a weapon? Piffle. Yes, I can.

So I see the value of knowing how to fight and wrestle and stuff. But still I question if someone is so concerned with practicing a Martial Art solely to defend themself in the streets, why wouldn't they emphasize knife fighting practice?

I doubt self-defense is the sole reason for studying, at least not for very many.

 

[Krisxylove]

Most confrontations do not involve weapons. And you overlook the need to defend yourself while you grab whatever weapon you're going to use.

Not so. I have a couple canes. One is wood, with a slightly more open curve so it can be used as a hook. The other is a metal pipe with a sturdy ornamental wolf head handle. It makes a fine mace. Can you name one place where I wouldn't be able to carry either? Don't have a weapon? That is 100% on you. Can't have a weapon? Piffle. Yes, I can.

I doubt self-defense is the sole reason for studying, at least not for very many.

Very good points, thank you

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I don't know anything about fighting but anyway I thought fighting martial arts for reals in the streets was silly because weapons. I personally like OC and have a practice water can also. I carry it in the same place and practice getting at it quick. I even got sprayed so that I'm not surprised when I catch it. But I heard that in many European countries even OC is illegal. So you really would have to learn martial arts to be better prepared to defend yourself. Also there are so many occasions when a person doesn't have a weapon or can't have a weapon. So I see the value of knowing how to fight and wrestle and stuff. But still I question if someone is so concerned with practicing a Martial Art solely to defend themself in the streets, why wouldn't they emphasize knife fighting practice?

There are many martial arts that do focus on weapons. My main art does, and a lot of the focus is on either reaching your weapon, or ways to use improvised weapons.

If you understand how to use 'improvised' weapons, you can easily carry a weapon most places - the three easiest options are a knife (which in many jobs you can say is work-related), a cane, or an umbrella.

And a lot of this is based on positioning, and knowledge of general martial principles. I would be much more concerned fighting a boxer who has a knife, for instance, than someone who has trained a knife form but never tried it in practice. Because the boxer knows how to fight, and can use it as a supplement, rather than their sole needs of protection that they haven't trained.

Lastly, regarding something like OC or pepper spray, not focusing on illegality, you can practice getting it free, but what if the situation you're in doesn't allow for it? Ie: if they grab you before you realize you're in danger you're not going to be able to reach your spray, and use it. Or if they recognize what you're trying to do, they can step back and then just put their head down and rush at you, totally negating the spray. Having one option isn't all you need, and considering that you need to be 21 ft or more away to have a gun protect you from a knife attack, I'd assume any spray wouldn't be more helpful than that.

 

[HighKick]

The question is actually meaningless.

"Master" indicates a skill level. I know people who are certified as Master electricians and Master plumbers. They continue to attend training courses and learn new things.

There is ALWAYS something new to learn. If you want to take it a step further, you can say that a Master is a really, really good student.

I have worked with a lot of 'Master' tradesmen in my work. Some of them were very good and really knew their stuff and even in a Union environment, didn't let title get in the way of getting a job done. Some were absolutely terrible at their job, but since they had put the time in as an apprentice and passed the test, (very relative) a state gave them a new title and, they got a huge bump in pay.
I imagine we have all seen the same in our vein of martial arts. The difference is real knowledge verses perceived knowledge and the natural decline of physical ability versus perceived real physical ability.

Master does indicate a skill level, but it is What you do with that knowledge that makes a Master a Master.

Everyone has their personal opinion which I think should account for a lot. I reached Master Dan rank in 1994. Especially back then, I never used the moniker. Why? Because I had reached it mainly on my physical ability and competition record. Yes, I knew the curriculum well, put in the required number of years, and had been teaching since '84. But I did not 'feel' like my idea of a Master. As time went on, I realized the moniker just does not fit me even though I have the rank. The only time I use it is when I am at an event where title is important/required or am introduced as such.

It is like rank, it is just a number.

 

[Krisxylove]

I would be much more concerned fighting a boxer who has a knife, for instance, than someone who has trained a knife form but never tried it in practice. Because the boxer knows how to fight, and can use it as a supplement, rather than their sole needs of protection that they haven't trained.

That kind of blew my mind, but yeah that makes so much sense.

if they grab you before you realize you're in danger you're not going to be able to reach your spray, and use it. Or if they recognize what you're trying to do, they can step back and then just put their head down and rush at you, totally negating the spray. Having one option isn't all you need, and considering that you need to be 21 ft or more away to have a gun protect you from a knife attack, I'd assume any spray wouldn't be more helpful than that.

This gave me a lot to think about, thank you so much.

 

[Haruhiko]

Can you name one place where I wouldn't be able to carry either?

Depending on the country and intent...

Airports, courts, even schools. You'll likely be asked what they are and why you're carrying them. Australia is quite strict for example and if the police officer sees you walking around with a shillelagh it'll raise eyebrows.

I think in Japan as well, this is true. You'll need paperwork about medical reasons for carrying it and if you don't, where you plan on going with said weapon.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Depending on the country and intent...

My intent is to keep my balance. I have neuropathies from chemo that make my feet numb. Sometimes I need a little help with balance.

Airports, courts, even schools. You'll likely be asked what they are and why you're carrying them. Australia is quite strict for example and if the police officer sees you walking around with a shillelagh it'll raise eyebrows.

What they are is obvious. They're canes. Assistive devices. Nobody cares. I have flown with them many times.

I think in Japan as well, this is true. You'll need paperwork about medical reasons for carrying it and if you don't, where you plan on going with said weapon.

Are you saying Japan is such a barbarous place that they'll stop me on the street and demand to see a note from my Dr? That's just silly.

 

[Holmejr]

Wow, it’s an art. Is ballet a waste of time. If you’ve simply hit a dead end, change to the FMA. It will take the rest of your life to master it.