Hi Calliegirl,
Firstly, I'll say that the most important thing is that everyone is comfortable with the school, the teacher, the other students, and so on, both yourself as a parent, and your child as the student there. And in that regard, I wholeheartedly agree that, if you're not comfortable with the way the classes are run, or if your son is expressing concern about the "stick", then definitely pull him out of there.
That said, I'm going to go back to your OP and see if we can get to how you've ended up in this predicament. Small warning, I'm not necessarily going to hold much back here.
Hi!
Okay, so my husband and I have always wanted both of our children to take Taekwondo.
Why? Have either of you got any experience in TKD, or any martial art? Why TKD? What do you think the benefits would be, that you're looking for for your kids?
We thought we "shopped" around well and decided on a place.
Again, I'd ask what experience you or your husband might have to do much "shopping around", at least in an informed way. Please note that I'm not saying you aren't able, I'm just trying to get some perspective of where you were coming from in this case.
Our Grandmaster is full Korean (trained in Korea) and has a good resume (8th or 9th degree blackbelt?), served in Korean military, etc.
Yeah, this is what I was talking about. He's full Korean... and? Does that make him a great teacher? Does that mean he understands teaching kids? Does that mean anything along those lines? He's an 8th or 9th Dan... so he's been around in the art a long time. Which means he is decades removed from being in a class with kids, in all probability, especially if the majority of his training was in Korea. And he was in the Korean military? What does that mean? What I mean by that is, why would that be important, or even desired? After all, you're questioning disciplinary methods as employed by a teacher who learnt the art in a highly disciplinary environment and culture (in terms of the art), has dedicated his life to such an approach, and comes from a highly disciplinary (military) background... are you really surprised that such approaches are employed by him? These are the hallmarks I'd be looking for is disciplinary methods were desired as part of the class, really.
I definitely don't want to paint a false picture of him becasue he is very nice to the children. Hugs them, gives them high fives, etc. HOWEVER, he does have a stick (forget the Korean name) that he carries around. In the beginning, I barey noticed it. Now, it seems he uses it more and more. I am 100% confident he would NEVER hurt a child. He can be waving it and, then, hug a child the next minute. However, he does use it to intimidate/scare a child into good behavior if they are not focusing (remember, my child is 4 1/2).
Again, I'd ask what you wanted your son to get out of martial art classes, especially at that young age. From the way you're describing this, there's no physical abuse taking place, but the teacher is taking his role of teaching the art seriously, and is doing what he feels is necessary for the kids to learn it properly. I'd personally argue that it's not that important at their age, but I've certainly seen such approaches to teaching kids. Really, it's a form of "tough love", if you will... a mixture of carrot and stick. And if you've sent your son into a martial art class to help with his discipline (not saying that's the case here, but it is a common reason that parents send their kids to classes), why would you be upset that that's what he's enforcing?
More alarming to me, is he does wack/hit/pat (whatever you want to call it) on their back, bottom of their feet, bottom, etc. even when they just do something not right or if he feels they are not focusing enough to do it right.
Hmm, there's quite a difference between a "whack" and a "pat"... can you be any more precise? Is he just tapping them to indicate which part of their body is in the wrong position, or is it more solid (but still gentle) to any available area for them to pay attention to him (possibly due to language barriers or issues with communication)?
It is not enough to hurt, but to get their attention.
So they pay attention to the instructor? Isn't that what you want, though?
I see my son's eyes get bugged out and he is afaid of it.
This is the first indication that there is a reason to take him out, really. So far it's been your perspective of something that you're an outsider to.
We don't do any kind of spanking or corporal punishment so this is pretty new to him. In the car the other day, he told me that "if Master ever slaps him again, he will want to walk out and never take TKD again". This alarms me.
Look, without getting into the whole pro-con argument of corporal punishment, I would point out that the lack of such forms of enforcing discipline in the home can only amplify the issues if it is encountered outside the family (in this case, in a martial art class). I don't think the idea of avoiding corporal punishment serves to protect the child at all, as it really leaves them unable to handle situations where some form of physical enforcement of behaviour is employed. I might suggest that, despite your desires for him, due to the lack of preparation from his homelife, TKD (or any martial art, really) might not be right for him at this age.
First of all, whether true or not, his 4 year old perception is that he slaps him.
Firstly, I'd talk to the young lad and clarify what he means when he says "slap".
Second, he is learning you get your way through intimidation.
Secondly, I don't know that that's what he's learning. Has he indicated in any way that that's been the lesson? Has he started trying to intimidate others in order to get his way? The actual lesson is more one of listening to authority figures... in other words, it's a disciplinary approach.
Third, I don't want him to want to quit TKD.
But what does he want? Did he want to start TKD in the first place? If a disciplined environment isn't the right thing for him right now, how about you find out what he wants... he might go back to it later on. He's a child, not even at school age yet. Time really is on his side. Pressuring him to continue won't really give much in the way of benefits.
Talking to more parents, I hear this is common. The other parents don't seem to mind "since it doesn't hurt" them. I am worried about the principle.
What principle? One that you're reading into it? One that is actually present? One that doesn't fit with your ideals on teaching children, but might fit better with other parents, especially where something like a martial art, trained for disciplinary reasons, is concerned?
Another parent told me her son was taking a stick to their younger brother and asking if he wanted to get smacked like the master said.
Then that kid needs to be pulled aside and have the difference explained. I'd bring the instructor into the conversation, to ensure the same message is being sent both at home and at the school, but in essence, I'd be putting a lot of that on a lack of boundaries enforced by the parents.
I don't want to be the weanie parent. I would not be complaining if he "hit" while they were sparring as in that case, you are "fighting" with protective gear, but this is not the case.
Really? I'm pretty sure that if the 8th or 9th Dan instructor was sparring with the 4 year olds, and started hitting them seriously, you'd have an issue with that... Really, it all comes down to context; what is the context of the "hitting"? Why is it employed?
It is a tool he is using to teach. I am going to try to talk to him, but there is a definite communication barrier.
Yes, it is just a tool he is using to teach. Why he is using that tool, and how he is using it, comes down to him, and you can only get that information from talking to him. I wouldn't necessarily expect him to stop for you, though. He might explain why his classes are run the way they are, what his values are that he is trying to instill in the kids, and how he does that with the methods he uses, but honestly, if you don't like it, you're free to remove your child.
If he does agree to stop waving it in front of my son, I then have to decide if that is good enough - still see it happening with others.
Here's the thing. There's a large degree of "consumer mentality" out there, and it's rather a negative influence on martial arts. There's the expectation that, as the paying parent/student, you get to dictate what happens in the class. Sorry, no. Not in the slightest. By paying, you are paying for a particular service that that instructor is providing... you're not paying to tell them how to do what they're doing. When you go to a movie theatre, you pay to see a particular movie. You might like it, you might not, you could even walk out of it, but you can't re-direct it, re-cast it, re-write it, or anything else. Martial art classes are very much like that. You're paying for this instructor to teach your child TKD based on their credentials and success, as well as the perceived benefits of the class/art itself. If you're happy with how things are presented, you pay for the class, and get the most out of it. If you're not, you don't dictate changes in the class, you stop paying and stop attending.
I'll put it this way: I teach Ninjutsu. There is a large weaponry component to our art, with some of the more commonly presented weapons (in my school) being knife and hanbo (a three foot stick, which realistically is used dominantly to break an opponents bones... as a result, the teaching is geared around generating bone breaking power and targeting). Additionally, there are a large range of subjects and methods which require a more mature mindset, and as a result, I only teach adults. I will have parents call up fairly regularly to ask about their children joining, though, mainly due to popular media using the "ninja" image in cartoons, movies, etc. I point out to these parents that I only teach adults... I will make exceptions for students as young as 16, provided they can demonstrate the required maturity, but I'm not about to accept a 10 year old, as I don't feel right giving them skills in using a knife combatively, or how to break other peoples bones with a stick, then sending them out onto a schoolyard. In a number of cases, the parents have asked if I could just teach their child "the other parts" instead... or if I could "not teach those weapons" when their kid is in the class. Uh... nope. The class is what it is. I'm not about to change the entire class for a single student.
What do you guys think? okay?
I think there isn't enough information to be completely sure one way or the other, but hopefully the above will give you some idea of an alternate understanding.
There is one other school I can try that does not do this, but the times are more inconvenient, the master's resume is not as great, but I am willing to switch if need be. I just want a reality check from others. My son does want to switch.
Forget the "resume". The only thing that's important is that your son is happy and comfortable in the class. If you're so insistent on him taking TKD, do what you can to support him... but be clear on what you're after (for him) out of the training. It might just be that such aspects actually give the benefits you want.
Not a problem. Hopefully this will give you a bit more food for thought. But sit down with your son, ask what he feels, and what he wants. That should be your main criteria as to where he goes.
