tae-kwon-do vs wing chun in non-sport combat?

[Jake104]

One of the best street fighters I have ever known was a TKD black belt. I went to a few tournaments of his where he took first place. On the street he didn't use much TKD if any ( kicking ). But he'd knock big dudes out with one or two punches. He was a little Korean guy 5.5" 150lbs. I personally seen him knock out a guy 6.2" 200+ lbs with a overhand right.

I think TKD probably helped him as a fighter. He had power timing and accuracy. Usually those are the things martial arts training teaches a practitioner if sparring is part of the training. He fought a lot so he had a lot of fight experience. This was back in the 90's. He ended up getting hit in the back of the head with a 40oz bottle and stomped out. He was in a coma but fully recovered and found Jesus. True story!

 

[Jake104]

Martial arts training of any style doesn't magically make you tough or give you heart. So this vs that comparisons in real world confrontations mean nothing. It's more of a practitioner case by case thing. Most people are scared and think they can talk there way out of a situation. Which ends up allowing the other guy to get the drop on them. Or freeze when they get rocked. Real fighting has the element of fear of death maiming and jail time involved.

 

[Hanzou]

Martial arts training of any style doesn't magically make you tough or give you heart. So this vs that comparisons in real world confrontations mean nothing. It's more of a practitioner case by case thing. Most people are scared and think they can talk there way out of a situation. Which ends up allowing the other guy to get the drop on them. Or freeze when they get rocked. Real fighting has the element of fear of death maiming and jail time involved.

I'm forced to disagree. It really depends on what type of training you're receiving. Some arts do train you to be tougher, and smoke arts simply don't.

 

[Danny T]

I'm forced to disagree. It really depends on what type of training you're receiving. Some arts do train you to be tougher, and smoke arts simply don't.

Gotta agree with it depends on the training you're receiving. But I also believe it isn't the system or style; it is the individual, how the the individual is trained, and how the individual practices what was trained.

 

[Jake104]

I think i agree to disagree and then re-agree to disagree with what I agreed with in the first place.....

It is the individual and the training and how it's practiced. Training under pressure and being hit in face helps in the tough dept. Yes not all MA are created equal but sometimes someone just has it. Natural talent, a true fighter spirit and tough as nails to begin with. So even a sport MA like TKD CAN produce good fighters. I have witnessed this first hand. Maybe he got the TKD secret sauce?

 

[VT_Vectis]

I think i agree to disagree and then re-agree to disagree with what I agreed with in the first place.....

It is the individual and the training and how it's practiced. Training under pressure and being hit in face helps in the tough dept. Yes not all MA are created equal but sometimes someone just has it. Natural talent, a true fighter spirit and tough as nails to begin with. So even a sport MA like TKD CAN produce good fighters. I have witnessed this first hand. Maybe he got the TKD secret sauce?

Agreed, friend of mine moved to my local area when we were 17 from a real tough inner city borough; never had any boxing or M.A teaching but grew up scrapping and he has great
timing/distance awareness and was just plain tough. Many the time we got started on and he would give a guy one push to the chest to put them off balance and get the perfect distance then... BAM! He'd either spark them clean out or bloody them so bad they thought twice...

So yeah, individual but also experience counts, whatever the style.

 

[Hanzou]

I think i agree to disagree and then re-agree to disagree with what I agreed with in the first place.....

It is the individual and the training and how it's practiced. Training under pressure and being hit in face helps in the tough dept. Yes not all MA are created equal but sometimes someone just has it. Natural talent, a true fighter spirit and tough as nails to begin with. So even a sport MA like TKD CAN produce good fighters. I have witnessed this first hand. Maybe he got the TKD secret sauce?

Okay, but that isn't what you initially said. You said that no martial arts training of any style can make you "magically" a tougher person. I'm saying that you can't get through certain martial art styles without becoming tougher. For example, in Kyokushin, you have to fight through several black belts as a brown to get your black belt. In Bjj we have something called "shark bait" where a white belt has to fight with the entire class in order to get their blue. Stuff like that is going to make you a tougher person.

I would also argue that certain styles attract tougher people.

 

[Marnetmar]

For example, in Kyokushin, you have to fight through several black belts as a brown to get your black belt. In Bjj we have something called "shark bait" where a white belt has to fight with the entire class in order to get their blue. Stuff like that is going to make you a tougher person.

This is interesting. It seems like with this kind of training, the art you're training as a whole would become better and better over time.

 

[Reeksta]

Martial arts training of any style doesn't magically make you tough or give you heart. So this vs that comparisons in real world confrontations mean nothing. It's more of a practitioner case by case thing. Most people are scared and think they can talk there way out of a situation. Which ends up allowing the other guy to get the drop on them. Or freeze when they get rocked. Real fighting has the element of fear of death maiming and jail time involved.

I'm also in disagreement with this I'm afraid. If you attended a freestyle or greco-roman wrestling class for six months and weren't a physically tougher and mentally stronger person at the end of it I'd be very surprised

 

[Jake104]

Agreed, friend of mine moved to my local area when we were 17 from a real tough inner city borough; never had any boxing or M.A teaching but grew up scrapping and he has great
timing/distance awareness and was just plain tough. Many the time we got started on and he would give a guy one push to the chest to put them off balance and get the perfect distance then... BAM! He'd either spark them clean out or bloody them so bad they thought twice...

So yeah, individual but also experience counts, whatever the style.

.
Yes this is about every tough person I know! Thank you!

 

[Jake104]

Okay, but that isn't what you initially said. You said that no martial arts training of any style can make you "magically" a tougher person. I'm saying that you can't get through certain martial art styles without becoming tougher. For example, in Kyokushin, you have to fight through several black belts as a brown to get your black belt. In Bjj we have something called "shark bait" where a white belt has to fight with the entire class in order to get their blue. Stuff like that is going to make you a tougher person.

I would also argue that certain styles attract tougher people.

Actually what I originally said was tough not tougher. So tougher compared to what? Only spritzing in your underwear instead of completely wetting yourself in a real combat situation? If you think tough is fighting in a controlled environment were someone is there to keep it safe and controlled? Then that's your opinion. My opinion is different. I have seen plenty of Supposedly tough trained people freeze up from fear or from being rocked or out numbered...

I kind of agree with your comment that, some MA arts are more popular to the tougher crowd, and some appeal more to the Harry Potter Dudgeons and Dragons crowd. Still doesn't mean anything. Cause hidden away among the Harry Potters might be a tough MOfo. Same goes with the "tougher" MA's. There might be a few pussys hidden in there ranks too.

 

[Jake104]

Just To clarify what I think tough is. Go out to a bar or club with a group of friends. When things go bad and suddenly you are out numbered but those friends still have your back and stand and fight or lay and fight if it's bjj. That's tough or down like we used to say. So many times I can't count. I thought someone was tough and they took off and left me to fight. Mysteriously they were mia out having a smoke or ordering a drink.

 

[Jake104]

So even a sport MA like TKD CAN produce good fighters. I have witnessed this first hand. Maybe he got the TKD secret sauce?[/QUOTE]
My opinion take it or leave it! If i wanted to argue. I'd tell my wife her *** is getting big!

 

[Fog565]

Then again, I never seem to have enough time to master everything I already have to study.

Truer words have never been spoken! I respect all martial arts. I believe there is no one art "better" than another. However, some arts are better suited to different scenarios.TKD wouldn't be as effective on the ground as BJJ. Just an example. I have experience in both TKD (not much) and WC. I would have to say WC in a close range scrap for sure. TKD with the power in the kicks and strikes at a longer range. I am not an advocate of flying or high kicks. Don't get me wrong, it takes talent and skill to execute said kicks. But in a real world self defense scenario, its way to easy to get caught off balance if your opponent is sharp. My 2 cents. Rich

 

[Thunder Foot]

Distance and timing are lessons we all must learn. Martial Arts or not.

 

[Dirty Dog]

So even a sport MA like TKD CAN produce good fighters. I have witnessed this first hand. Maybe he got the TKD secret sauce?

TKD is not a "sport MA". It is a MA. Some schools and some individuals focus on the sport aspects of TKD, but their choice to focus on this subset of TKD does not change what TKD is.

 

[Jake104]

TKD is not a "sport MA". It is a MA. Some schools and some individuals focus on the sport aspects of TKD, but their choice to focus on this subset of TKD does not change what TKD is.

You're absolutely right. The "sport" wasn't meant to diminish the combative effectiveness of the art. But like you said some choose to focus mostly on the sport aspect. So I think the general perception of those looking from the outside in. Is that it's a sport style art. Just like those same people look at Wing Chun as some chi sao slap fest game.

 

[Jake104]

Distance and timing are lessons we all must learn. Martial Arts or not.

Exactly! It's not an easy lesson to learn or to perfect for that matter. You learn from doing. In my opinion this means, its a fight and you are going to get hit. Except and embrace it. Next you have to fully commit mentally. I see it time and time again, partial commitment or fear leading too bad things. Which leads back to the first point.

 

[Mephisto]

Gotta agree with it depends on the training you're receiving. But I also believe it isn't the system or style; it is the individual, how the the individual is trained, and how the individual practices what was trained.

This is a common cliche "individual is more important than style" it's friendly and non threatening so people repeat it ad naseum. The individual is certainly a factor but look at a style as a whole. On average how able is an average practitioner when it comes to fighting? Some styles simply more reliably produce dominant fighters and some style are more occupied by out of shape martial arts fanboys.

This is interesting. It seems like with this kind of training, the art you're training as a whole would become better and better over time.

Precisely! That's why some arts are able to consistantly put out black belts that can fight and handle a resisting opponent.

I kind of agree with your comment that, some MA arts are more popular to the tougher crowd, and some appeal more to the Harry Potter Dudgeons and Dragons crowd. Still doesn't mean anything. Cause hidden away among the Harry Potters might be a tough MOfo. Same goes with the "tougher" MA's. There might be a few pussys hidden in there ranks too.

Exactly, you can train with the Harry potter fans and if you're deficated become king of the nerds or you can find an art that consistantly produces badasses. There are badasses in every system, but I'd be that tge badasses in the "Harry potter" systems would be badasses no matter what and would even be better with the right system. The problem is, what do those of us who aren't natural badasses do? Go to the art that consistantly makes badasses if that's your goal.

Truer words have never been spoken! I respect all martial arts. I believe there is no one art "better" than another. However, some arts are better suited to different scenarios.TKD wouldn't be as effective on the ground as BJJ. Just an example. I have experience in both TKD (not much) and WC. I would have to say WC in a close range scrap for sure. TKD with the power in the kicks and strikes at a longer range. I am not an advocate of flying or high kicks. Don't get me wrong, it takes talent and skill to execute said kicks. But in a real world self defense scenario, its way to easy to get caught off balance if your opponent is sharp. My 2 cents. Rich

Thanks captain obvious! Tkd won't be as good at grappling? Who'd have thought?

 

[Jake104]

Exactly, you can train with the Harry potter fans and if you're deficated become king of the nerds or you can find an art that consistantly produces badasses. There are badasses in every system, but I'd be that tge badasses in the "Harry potter" systems would be badasses no matter what and would even be better with the right system. The problem is, what do those of us who aren't natural badasses do? Go to the art that consistantly makes badasses if that's your goal.

I think you have dragged me far enough into this pointless argument . Again, I'd rather be kicked in the balls then argue this style is better than that. Bla bla bla bla. You won! Congrats! You picked the better art! Knock yourself out homie! Haha!